Double posting Gruff? Good to see you emerging from a long hiatus, leave it to capitalistic dialogue to lure you in. Either that or the desert heat is pointing to a better indoor environment and more time on the computer.
As usual I wish I could wholeheartedly agree with you but regardless of how much better poverty seems in the current light it doesn't change the fact that much of capitalism is causal to poverty. I could agree with the behavioral aspect to which you point to as being a huge flaw but not as it being the only one. There is much to be done to improve the system but then again we could also tweak socialism to be a better system and perhaps a melding of the two might bring about a whole new perspective on social governance. On Jun 11, 4:03 pm, gruff <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Vam. I've pretty much always been a fan of capitalism -- at least > since I found out what it was. It's made us all wealthier. A man in > poverty today is a hell of a lot better off than a man in poverty a > hundred years ago, and even more so for a woman. > > But the real question is how do we get people to behave better. Marx > predicted that capitalism would self-destruct because of the well- > known propensity of human beings to behave badly. For many years I > believed democracy would become known as the noble experiment that > failed for the same reason. I now know different. We are growing > into democracy, not failing it. > > Mark Twain is long attributed with saying that people justly get the > sort of government they deserve. I would say the same thing holds > true for economics. We get the sort of economy we deserve. And given > the number of fingers in the pie, I'd say we have exactly what we > deserve at the moment. The trick will be to learn from this > experience. > > In a broader perspective I see no reason we cannot have a healthy > capitalist free-market system that fulfills it's social obligations to > all its members because it is wealth and profitable enough to do so. > > There's a movement afoot that I'm very much in favor of seeing grow. > It's the recognition and development of our spiritual and emotional > intelligence in addition to those abilities measured by the various IQ > tests. See Wikipedia for a quick overview of spiritual intelligence. > Spiritual intelligence requires no religion. > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_intelligence) > > The basic principles of spiritual intelligence are as follows: > > * Self-awareness: Knowing what I believe in and value, and what > deeply motivates me > > * Spontaneity: Living in and being responsive to the moment > > * Being vision- and value-led: Acting from principles and deep > beliefs, and living accordingly > > * Holism: Seeing larger patterns, relationships, and connections; > having a sense of belonging > > * Compassion: Having the quality of "feeling-with" and deep > empathy > > * Celebration of diversity: Valuing other people for their > differences, not despite them > > * Field independence: Standing against the crowd and having one's > own convictions > > * Humility: Having the sense of being a player in a larger drama, > of one's true place in the world > > * Tendency to ask fundamental "Why?" questions: Needing to > understand things and get to the bottom of them > > * Ability to reframe: Standing back from a situation or problem > and seeing the bigger picture; seeing problems in a wider context > > * Positive use of adversity: Learning and growing from mistakes, > setbacks, and suffering > > * Sense of vocation: Feeling called upon to serve, to give > something back > > We need to be raised up in these area while at the same time raising > our next generation. We achieved our first global prominence by sheer > and oftentimes brutal force. To regain prominence we must now learn > to finesse. We can do this. We have it in us. As a attendant > benefit, once achieved these qualities, even to a small degree, we > will see more leaders with the same qualities which will in turn lead > to a moral society, government and economy. > > But then I'm an incurable optimist. > > /e > > On Jun 10, 10:56 pm, vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hey, Gruff, great to hear you espouse " moral profit " and healthy > > capitalism. Welcome back ! > > > Depending upon the times and the state of environment, I could opt for > > either capitalism or socialism, as it suits, if there are no other > > choices. But there are choices galore, as in how could we go forward > > hereon. A capitalist structure and philosophy, regulated for immoral > > and unhealthy practices, would be our best bet now. It would not be > > sheer capitalism and definitely not socialism. > > > Your apparent satisfaction at offloading the drab on to the emerging > > economies has the same drawbacks as closing company financials after a > > 12 - month period. When actually, matters do not just end there. They > > rebound, disperse, proliferate, complicate, vitiate, and have global > > and long time - scale ( destructive and undesirable ) effects ! > > > For profits to be moral and practices to be healthy, the power of > > capital is to be heavily moderated by our concern for the good of all > > everywhere, and as far into the future as we can visualise. Until, > > such concerns come to pervade the human consciousness by and large, > > corporate thinking, management philosophy, regulatory systems, > > political and judicial institutions, and the like. > > > The fact is : the destructive and undesirable effects are unavoidable. > > But we could all work to keep it to a minimum. And, we must ! > > > On Jun 11, 7:56 am, gruff <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Guess you're the only one gabby. Good to read you too. Zoe's fine > > > and I'm fair to middlin' ... Thanks for asking. > > > > /e > > > > On Jun 4, 1:43 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hey, gruff! Good to see you back. I hope you and Zoe have been doing > > > > fine in the meantime. > > > > > On 4 Jun., 04:09, gruff <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On Jun 2, 3:24 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc&feature=channel > > > > > > > So much for capitalism! > > > > > > Capitalism is very much a provider in this situation. Only with > > > > > sufficient profits can a company fund such an endeavor until it starts > > > > > producing a return. Management may be magnanimous but the CEOs and > > > > > Board Members, sole ownerships and modified partnerships have to be > > > > > profit motivated. I think all this trend -- and hopefully the > > > > > principles symbolized in the video are a trend -- will lead to perhaps > > > > > such a thing as a moral profit. > > > > > > Nor don't see this perspective on motivation as a new discovery. Some > > > > > companies knew the benefits of less money and more creativity a long > > > > > time ago. It's quite possible that IBM -- which is the company where > > > > > I first saw it in action -- may have been among the first to put it > > > > > into action. I had occasion to both work for IBM in the capacity of a > > > > > contracted employee doing drone work and at another unconnected time > > > > > roommated with two IBM software engineers. IBM builds many of it's > > > > > plants -- especially when they are think tanks -- in small communities > > > > > and encourages its employees to socialize together. They also gave > > > > > their employees broad latitude to work on their own ideas which, of > > > > > course, IBM owns should they become successful. Obviously a number of > > > > > them have so become. > > > > > > From what I hear and read, Google's another as is Apple. There are > > > > > quite a number of them and not surprisingly I think most are in other > > > > > developed nations. We're more or less laggards in this arena. > > > > > > What boggles me is the huge number of companies less successful than > > > > > they might be and yet ignoring the principles and dynamics of more > > > > > successful companies. It's like saying, here's a more productive and > > > > > satisfying means of making greater profits and have a happy, loyal, > > > > > dependable cadre of employees and a response that is a sub-order of > > > > > magnitude of duh, gimme da monkey wrench dude. > > > > > > There has always been a higher self in each of us that is not lured by > > > > > money as much as it is by progress, achievement and the resulting > > > > > personal satisfaction. It's like being blessed. And now we have the > > > > > chance to truly achieve that state of mind. > > > > > > Most of the grunt work, the suffocation of doing the same boring task > > > > > day and day out till you can retire type of work, is now -- and has > > > > > been for some time -- migrating to emerging economies that are not > > > > > unionized and can do that sort of work better and cheaper. This is > > > > > not going to suffocate the U.S. economy nor that of any other > > > > > developed nation. > > > > > > In fact, I believe the opposite will happen. The migration of grunt > > > > > jobs to other nations will usher in a period of creative destruction > > > > > (or destructive creation, your choice) where we will have no choice > > > > > but to mature our educational system to produce more creative thinkers > > > > > than grunts. > > > > > > Some might say the unions destroyed manufacturing in America and > > > > > within the parameters of blame they deserve a part, but to a greater > > > > > sense I see it as a maturing of our economy and hopefully our > > > > > society. Sophistication if nothing else will drive us there > > > > > eventually but it's nice to see some who have started on their own. > > > > > > Insightful presentation, Orn. Nice find.
