"Sin", a majic word for producing concepts.(me) The immediate concept
whereof, is that something has been set out of order, out of orbit,
out of process. Here you have your cause/effect Laws.< So, then, my
responsibility becomes insurring that my actions or inactions are not
the cause of someone else's mishaps. Then where one sees that he can
stow a coin for the man with the boat at the crossing (Egyptoloy), he
do something(s) that brings benefit to others, preferably a lot of
people. This is at the same time natural and spiritual.
Still the results that we see when we stop doing negatives and get as
many positives as we are inclined, This is going to be our
experiences. The place where intellect gets to shine, at least on this
side of the plain, because it is going be the tool of observation. If
a person does bad and bad things happen in their lives. For any reason
starts doing good things instead and good things start to happen they
keep doing good, things continue on that way. What would be the
intellectual conclusion, do you suppose? Wherefore, my experiences
have convinced me that the cause/effect application works in a cycle,
not in a one-way motion. My opinion in this is that Right Knowledge
should be enough to encourage Right Living. All in alliance with our
innate natures and not despite it. And as I've said before, the 'Laws'
are not to be defeated in any form. They are not subject to concept,
in that regard. No matter how much one want to fly, if they jump, they
are going to land on the ground. Gravity is going to have it no other
way. Attaching a rocket to the body could enable one to fly. If they
start to think that gravity has been defeated and turn that rocket
off, my point will be
proved.
While we pay attention to the eco system of the earth, we tollaly
disregard the eco system inherent in spiritual evolution (mind, body,
soul). And man has many means of placing and displacing people as they
see fit. But they can't tell which one of those had the mind and/or
spirit to develope the remedy for any of man's ills.
"Sin"
Regarding "the heart of man is fully set upon doing evil" is inherent
in his innate nature. Here again, my proof is the man with the rocket.
Consider when a man is not accompanied by the things that enables him
to live his way, being one thing; But when he is naked and hungry and
deals with his nature face to face in order to eat and cover himself,
then he knows himself. I need not mention the transition from the
first to the latter is often more than many can bear. Nonetheless, the
naked man is going to know some things that the man with the rocket
won't be able to
preceive.
Finally, the heart of 'man'. Inside there are two voices, two
entities, or two minds. If the one with the best ideas, suggestions,
or whatever, present something with negative effects on others, then
the quality of the heart of that man will be established by the choice
that he makes. Which vioce he ascribe to. And his innate nature will
be at work weather he is familiar with it or not.
On Nov 21, 3:34 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote:
> Pathfinder (Edward), I do appreciate your attempt to share your
> understanding of sin. Sadly, at least so far, what little sense I can
> make out of your words appears at once inaccurate as well as
> contradictory.
>
> However, like you, I too feel that “sin as a concept … has been
> abused, misused, but never really understood.” Further, in most cases
> whatever is being addressed as ‘laws’ too follows the same path of
> being abused, misused and misunderstood.
>
> I also agree that for some, if there is no immediate ‘punishment’ (my
> term), personal tendencies will continue.
>
> I even agree that those who are ignorant will suffer.
>
> Fortunately, the notion of sin is not necessary in any of these cases.
> While it is obvious that living things/beings are oriented towards
> survival, just knowing this or even doing an analysis of it has
> nothing to do with sin.
>
> Your vision of ‘learn[ing] to bring the heart into conformity’, if I
> understand it at all, is misguided and misses the innate nature of
> humanity. Of course, the use of the term ‘heart’ is conflated with
> numerous concepts and issues here so confusion is a natural outcome.
>
> But, of course, most of our apparent disagreements are but as you
> point out…you believe that “the heart of man is fully set upon doing
> evil” while I do not. I say this not even knowing which “mystic laws”
> you suggest exist!
>
> On Nov 21, 2:25 pm, pathfinder <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I am saying that the heart of man aka your heart, my heart, and the
> > hearts of all are set towards survival, gratification, pleasure,
> > curiousity, thrill, etc. We must learn to bring the heart into
> > conformity. Out of an instinct to survive, gratify, enjoy or whatever
> > the caes may be, I, you, man, woman, we do what we think is best for
> > ourselves if we do not apply the laws or their principles. We must
> > learn to do what is wanting without violating those Laws.
> > Collectively, we assume or believe that no one knows our thoughts,
> > motives, actions, so we are less likely to develope the restraints
> > upon ourselves necessary to truely be respectable towards the rights,
> > needs, concerns, etc., of our neighbor, our fellow-human-being. As one
> > experiment along these lines, recording the results, what they'll find
> > they have would be their experience. Watch the children, Allan. At
> > least two children, 1-3 years of age. One toy. Stay close and be ready
> > to teach. But you will see the heart of man there. So, unless you came
> > into this world by some other means, your's would be included amongst
> > the Heart of Man.
>
> > On Nov 21, 9:12 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Interesting Edward, so you are saying your heart aka the heart of man is
> > > fully set upon doing evil ( contrary to the mystic laws)." Please explain
> > > to
> > > me why you are "fully set upon doing evil"? I hope you do not give a
> > > bunch
> > > of bible quotes but rather in your own words.
> > > Allan
>
> > > On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 5:29 AM, pathfinder
> > > <[email protected]>wrote:
>
> > > > I see sin as a concept that has been abused, misused, but never really
> > > > understood. I see it as a violation of any of those controlling
> > > > factors which we commonly refer to as 'laws'. Some of those we adapt
> > > > to early; like those of gravity, force, the elements, etc., because
> > > > the results of the violations are immediate. Still, on a higher level
> > > > the results are more subtle, and takes more time for the cosmos to
> > > > render the prefect vibrations. Wherefore, we continue until we get the
> > > > over-load, a lot of the times. Thus, the bible verse, 'Because the
> > > > judgement of the Lord is not executed speedily, the heart of man is
> > > > fully set upon doing evil ( contrary to the mystic laws)." So what we
> > > > would finish with would be relationship and not religion. A hamonious
> > > > relationship with the Laws natural to the earth/heaven factors. Then
> > > > the nations could use the soldiers on the farms, the polices building
> > > > structures, the politians, well,they still might need something that
> > > > they don't have to think about. We can defy some of these laws to a
> > > > certain extent, but we can't defeat any of them. Seeming to ignore
> > > > them is not a form of defeat. If one ever learn to live in that
> > > > hormony he don't want any of those laws defeated no way. The solution,
> > > > then becomes, too easy. With the magnitude of some of the problems in
> > > > this world, seems like nothing short of a major catastrophy on a
> > > > global scale could even come close to having some effect. May be true,
> > > > but, that catastrophy need be applied only to the old systems of
> > > > thoughts, produceing behavior.
>
> > > > On Nov 20, 6:23 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > Gabbers, while I may have discussed about yes/no issues, the notion of
> > > > > sin is not one of them. I do not accept the notion of sin.
>
> > > > > On Nov 17, 4:06 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Yes, you do, orn. You argue along the same yes/no line.
>
> > > > > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:46 PM, ornamentalmind <
> > > > [email protected]
>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Accepting the notion of sin/salvation seems to be necessary for
> > > > > > > current day biblical dogma to make sense. Am I missing something
> > > > > > > there? Oh, and I don't accept said notion.
>
> > > > > > > On Nov 16, 11:54 pm, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > every generation has its teachers and false teachers, prophets
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > false
> > > > > > > > prophets.
> > > > > > > > personally I am not into bible thumpers.
> > > > > > > > Allan
>
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:24 PM, pathfinder <
> > > > [email protected]
> > > > > > > >wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > Just like in the days of Noah, shall the days be when the Son
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > Man
> > > > > > > > > is revealed. Noah's message was strange and inconceivable.
> > > > > > > > > Jesus
> > > > spoke
> > > > > > > > > of this in Luke 17:26> "And as it was in the days of No'e, so
> > > > shall it
> > > > > > > > > be also in the days of the Son of man." The warning is also in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > numbers: 8 souls saved.
> > > > > > > > > Isaiah 29:10> "For the Lord hath poured out upon you the
> > > > > > > > > spirit
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > > deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your
> > > > rulers,
> > > > > > > > > the seers hath he covered. > (11)- And the visioin of all has
> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which
> > > > > > > > > men
> > > > > > > > > deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray
> > > > > > > > > thee:
> > > > and he
> > > > > > > > > saith, I cannot: for it is sealed:> (12)- And the book is
> > > > delivered to
> > > > > > > > > him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and
> > > > > > > > > he
> > > > saith,
> > > > > > > > > I am not learned.> (13)- Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as
> > > > this
> > > > > > > > > people draw near me with their mouth, and their lips do honour
> > > > me, but
> > > > > > > > > have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward
> > > > > > > > > me is
> > > > > > > > > taught by the precept of men:> (14)- Therefore, behold, I will
> > > > proced
> > > > > > > > > to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous
> > > > > > > > > work
> > > > and a
> > > > > > > > > wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the
> > > > > > > > > understanding of their prudent men shall be
> > > > > > > > > hid."
> > > > > > > > > Now tell me, If the leaders and the prophets have been
> > > > > > > > > blinded by
> > > > God,
> > > > > > > > > how could one logically expect God to be there passing out
> > > > > > > > > sights
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > > visions? God speaks for himself. We just have to learn to
> > > > > > > > > listen
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > > apply.
> > > > > > > > > On Nov 16, 8:50 am, frantheman <[email protected]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Let us all be damned! If reading this kind of rubbish is
> > > > conditional
> > > > > > > > > > to being saved, then I don't want to be ...
>
> > > > > > > > > > Francis
>
> > > > > > > > > > On 16 Nov., 17:37, "[email protected]" <
> > > > [email protected]
>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Spam spam I call spam!
>
> > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 16, 4:23 pm, edward mason
> > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > > > > > > > > From: <[email protected]>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 2:12 AM
> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Testimony of Jesus Christ[2]--word document.doc
> > > > > > > > > > > > To: [email protected]
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > I've shared Testimony of Jesus Christ[2]--word
> > > > > > > > > > > > document.doc<
>
> > > >https://docs.google.com/document/d/1epTOPsmbeL_wmUUDCeJdwQaM4totpYZjG..
> > > > > > > .>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Click to open:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > - Testimony of Jesus Christ[2]--word
> > > > > > > > > > > > document.doc<
>
> > > >https://docs.google.com/document/d/1epTOPsmbeL_wmUUDCeJdwQaM4totpYZjG..
> > > > > > > .>
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > LAST DAY PROPHECIES THAT FIT THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE
> > > > PRESENT
> > > > > > > DAY
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > “THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS THE SWORD”
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Revelation 12:17 “And the dragon was wroth with the
> > > > woman, and
> > > > > > > went
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the
> > > > > > > commandments of
> > > > > > > > > God,
> > > > > > > > > > > > and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Revelation 19:10 “And I fell at his feet to worship him.
> > > > And he
> > > > > > > said
> > > > > > > > > unto
> > > > > > > > > > > > me,’ see thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of
> > > > thy
> > > > > > > brothren
> > > > > > > > > > > > that
>
> ...
>
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