"Finally, the heart of 'man'. Inside there are two voices, two entities, or two minds."
I can say in all certainty that this is NOT my experience, or any other part of my being. On Nov 22, 1:12 am, pathfinder <[email protected]> wrote: > "Sin", a majic word for producing concepts.(me) The immediate concept > whereof, is that something has been set out of order, out of orbit, > out of process. Here you have your cause/effect Laws.< So, then, my > responsibility becomes insurring that my actions or inactions are not > the cause of someone else's mishaps. Then where one sees that he can > stow a coin for the man with the boat at the crossing (Egyptoloy), he > do something(s) that brings benefit to others, preferably a lot of > people. This is at the same time natural and spiritual. > Still the results that we see when we stop doing negatives and get as > many positives as we are inclined, This is going to be our > experiences. The place where intellect gets to shine, at least on this > side of the plain, because it is going be the tool of observation. If > a person does bad and bad things happen in their lives. For any reason > starts doing good things instead and good things start to happen they > keep doing good, things continue on that way. What would be the > intellectual conclusion, do you suppose? Wherefore, my experiences > have convinced me that the cause/effect application works in a cycle, > not in a one-way motion. My opinion in this is that Right Knowledge > should be enough to encourage Right Living. All in alliance with our > innate natures and not despite it. And as I've said before, the 'Laws' > are not to be defeated in any form. They are not subject to concept, > in that regard. No matter how much one want to fly, if they jump, they > are going to land on the ground. Gravity is going to have it no other > way. Attaching a rocket to the body could enable one to fly. If they > start to think that gravity has been defeated and turn that rocket > off, my point will be > proved. > While we pay attention to the eco system of the earth, we tollaly > disregard the eco system inherent in spiritual evolution (mind, body, > soul). And man has many means of placing and displacing people as they > see fit. But they can't tell which one of those had the mind and/or > spirit to develope the remedy for any of man's ills. > "Sin" > Regarding "the heart of man is fully set upon doing evil" is inherent > in his innate nature. Here again, my proof is the man with the rocket. > Consider when a man is not accompanied by the things that enables him > to live his way, being one thing; But when he is naked and hungry and > deals with his nature face to face in order to eat and cover himself, > then he knows himself. I need not mention the transition from the > first to the latter is often more than many can bear. Nonetheless, the > naked man is going to know some things that the man with the rocket > won't be able to > preceive. > Finally, the heart of 'man'. Inside there are two voices, two > entities, or two minds. If the one with the best ideas, suggestions, > or whatever, present something with negative effects on others, then > the quality of the heart of that man will be established by the choice > that he makes. Which vioce he ascribe to. And his innate nature will > be at work weather he is familiar with it or not. > On Nov 21, 3:34 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Pathfinder (Edward), I do appreciate your attempt to share your > > understanding of sin. Sadly, at least so far, what little sense I can > > make out of your words appears at once inaccurate as well as > > contradictory. > > > However, like you, I too feel that “sin as a concept … has been > > abused, misused, but never really understood.” Further, in most cases > > whatever is being addressed as ‘laws’ too follows the same path of > > being abused, misused and misunderstood. > > > I also agree that for some, if there is no immediate ‘punishment’ (my > > term), personal tendencies will continue. > > > I even agree that those who are ignorant will suffer. > > > Fortunately, the notion of sin is not necessary in any of these cases. > > While it is obvious that living things/beings are oriented towards > > survival, just knowing this or even doing an analysis of it has > > nothing to do with sin. > > > Your vision of ‘learn[ing] to bring the heart into conformity’, if I > > understand it at all, is misguided and misses the innate nature of > > humanity. Of course, the use of the term ‘heart’ is conflated with > > numerous concepts and issues here so confusion is a natural outcome. > > > But, of course, most of our apparent disagreements are but as you > > point out…you believe that “the heart of man is fully set upon doing > > evil” while I do not. I say this not even knowing which “mystic laws” > > you suggest exist! > > > On Nov 21, 2:25 pm, pathfinder <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I am saying that the heart of man aka your heart, my heart, and the > > > hearts of all are set towards survival, gratification, pleasure, > > > curiousity, thrill, etc. We must learn to bring the heart into > > > conformity. Out of an instinct to survive, gratify, enjoy or whatever > > > the caes may be, I, you, man, woman, we do what we think is best for > > > ourselves if we do not apply the laws or their principles. We must > > > learn to do what is wanting without violating those Laws. > > > Collectively, we assume or believe that no one knows our thoughts, > > > motives, actions, so we are less likely to develope the restraints > > > upon ourselves necessary to truely be respectable towards the rights, > > > needs, concerns, etc., of our neighbor, our fellow-human-being. As one > > > experiment along these lines, recording the results, what they'll find > > > they have would be their experience. Watch the children, Allan. At > > > least two children, 1-3 years of age. One toy. Stay close and be ready > > > to teach. But you will see the heart of man there. So, unless you came > > > into this world by some other means, your's would be included amongst > > > the Heart of Man. > > > > On Nov 21, 9:12 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Interesting Edward, so you are saying your heart aka the heart of man is > > > > fully set upon doing evil ( contrary to the mystic laws)." Please > > > > explain to > > > > me why you are "fully set upon doing evil"? I hope you do not give a > > > > bunch > > > > of bible quotes but rather in your own words. > > > > Allan > > > > > On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 5:29 AM, pathfinder > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > I see sin as a concept that has been abused, misused, but never really > > > > > understood. I see it as a violation of any of those controlling > > > > > factors which we commonly refer to as 'laws'. Some of those we adapt > > > > > to early; like those of gravity, force, the elements, etc., because > > > > > the results of the violations are immediate. Still, on a higher level > > > > > the results are more subtle, and takes more time for the cosmos to > > > > > render the prefect vibrations. Wherefore, we continue until we get the > > > > > over-load, a lot of the times. Thus, the bible verse, 'Because the > > > > > judgement of the Lord is not executed speedily, the heart of man is > > > > > fully set upon doing evil ( contrary to the mystic laws)." So what we > > > > > would finish with would be relationship and not religion. A hamonious > > > > > relationship with the Laws natural to the earth/heaven factors. Then > > > > > the nations could use the soldiers on the farms, the polices building > > > > > structures, the politians, well,they still might need something that > > > > > they don't have to think about. We can defy some of these laws to a > > > > > certain extent, but we can't defeat any of them. Seeming to ignore > > > > > them is not a form of defeat. If one ever learn to live in that > > > > > hormony he don't want any of those laws defeated no way. The solution, > > > > > then becomes, too easy. With the magnitude of some of the problems in > > > > > this world, seems like nothing short of a major catastrophy on a > > > > > global scale could even come close to having some effect. May be true, > > > > > but, that catastrophy need be applied only to the old systems of > > > > > thoughts, produceing behavior. > > > > > > On Nov 20, 6:23 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Gabbers, while I may have discussed about yes/no issues, the notion > > > > > > of > > > > > > sin is not one of them. I do not accept the notion of sin. > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 4:06 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes, you do, orn. You argue along the same yes/no line. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:46 PM, ornamentalmind < > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Accepting the notion of sin/salvation seems to be necessary for > > > > > > > > current day biblical dogma to make sense. Am I missing something > > > > > > > > there? Oh, and I don't accept said notion. > > > > > > > > > On Nov 16, 11:54 pm, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > every generation has its teachers and false teachers, > > > > > > > > > prophets and > > > > > false > > > > > > > > > prophets. > > > > > > > > > personally I am not into bible thumpers. > > > > > > > > > Allan > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:24 PM, pathfinder < > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Just like in the days of Noah, shall the days be when the > > > > > > > > > > Son of > > > > > Man > > > > > > > > > > is revealed. Noah's message was strange and inconceivable. > > > > > > > > > > Jesus > > > > > spoke > > > > > > > > > > of this in Luke 17:26> "And as it was in the days of No'e, > > > > > > > > > > so > > > > > shall it > > > > > > > > > > be also in the days of the Son of man." The warning is also > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > numbers: 8 souls saved. > > > > > > > > > > Isaiah 29:10> "For the Lord hath poured out upon you the > > > > > > > > > > spirit > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your > > > > > rulers, > > > > > > > > > > the seers hath he covered. > (11)- And the visioin of all > > > > > > > > > > has is > > > > > > > > > > become unto you > > ... > > read more »
