Gabby is this more humor or some knowledge this time? Don't you know that I don't know that language? Is it latin? Ofcourse, I can see that it and the heart in The Tree of Life both are the element which the other members are either supplied by or connected to. Wikipedia will grant you access to the image.
On Nov 22, 4:53 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > Pathfinder, look at the 'duality' of the heart and see what Molly means. > > > > On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > "Finally, the heart of 'man'. Inside there are two voices, two > > entities, or two minds." > > > I can say in all certainty that this is NOT my experience, or any > > other part of my being. > > > On Nov 22, 1:12 am, pathfinder <[email protected]> wrote: > > > "Sin", a majic word for producing concepts.(me) The immediate concept > > > whereof, is that something has been set out of order, out of orbit, > > > out of process. Here you have your cause/effect Laws.< So, then, my > > > responsibility becomes insurring that my actions or inactions are not > > > the cause of someone else's mishaps. Then where one sees that he can > > > stow a coin for the man with the boat at the crossing (Egyptoloy), he > > > do something(s) that brings benefit to others, preferably a lot of > > > people. This is at the same time natural and spiritual. > > > Still the results that we see when we stop doing negatives and get as > > > many positives as we are inclined, This is going to be our > > > experiences. The place where intellect gets to shine, at least on this > > > side of the plain, because it is going be the tool of observation. If > > > a person does bad and bad things happen in their lives. For any reason > > > starts doing good things instead and good things start to happen they > > > keep doing good, things continue on that way. What would be the > > > intellectual conclusion, do you suppose? Wherefore, my experiences > > > have convinced me that the cause/effect application works in a cycle, > > > not in a one-way motion. My opinion in this is that Right Knowledge > > > should be enough to encourage Right Living. All in alliance with our > > > innate natures and not despite it. And as I've said before, the 'Laws' > > > are not to be defeated in any form. They are not subject to concept, > > > in that regard. No matter how much one want to fly, if they jump, they > > > are going to land on the ground. Gravity is going to have it no other > > > way. Attaching a rocket to the body could enable one to fly. If they > > > start to think that gravity has been defeated and turn that rocket > > > off, my point will be > > > proved. > > > While we pay attention to the eco system of the earth, we tollaly > > > disregard the eco system inherent in spiritual evolution (mind, body, > > > soul). And man has many means of placing and displacing people as they > > > see fit. But they can't tell which one of those had the mind and/or > > > spirit to develope the remedy for any of man's ills. > > > "Sin" > > > Regarding "the heart of man is fully set upon doing evil" is inherent > > > in his innate nature. Here again, my proof is the man with the rocket. > > > Consider when a man is not accompanied by the things that enables him > > > to live his way, being one thing; But when he is naked and hungry and > > > deals with his nature face to face in order to eat and cover himself, > > > then he knows himself. I need not mention the transition from the > > > first to the latter is often more than many can bear. Nonetheless, the > > > naked man is going to know some things that the man with the rocket > > > won't be able to > > > preceive. > > > Finally, the heart of 'man'. Inside there are two voices, two > > > entities, or two minds. If the one with the best ideas, suggestions, > > > or whatever, present something with negative effects on others, then > > > the quality of the heart of that man will be established by the choice > > > that he makes. Which vioce he ascribe to. And his innate nature will > > > be at work weather he is familiar with it or not. > > > On Nov 21, 3:34 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Pathfinder (Edward), I do appreciate your attempt to share your > > > > understanding of sin. Sadly, at least so far, what little sense I can > > > > make out of your words appears at once inaccurate as well as > > > > contradictory. > > > > > However, like you, I too feel that “sin as a concept … has been > > > > abused, misused, but never really understood.” Further, in most cases > > > > whatever is being addressed as ‘laws’ too follows the same path of > > > > being abused, misused and misunderstood. > > > > > I also agree that for some, if there is no immediate ‘punishment’ (my > > > > term), personal tendencies will continue. > > > > > I even agree that those who are ignorant will suffer. > > > > > Fortunately, the notion of sin is not necessary in any of these cases. > > > > While it is obvious that living things/beings are oriented towards > > > > survival, just knowing this or even doing an analysis of it has > > > > nothing to do with sin. > > > > > Your vision of ‘learn[ing] to bring the heart into conformity’, if I > > > > understand it at all, is misguided and misses the innate nature of > > > > humanity. Of course, the use of the term ‘heart’ is conflated with > > > > numerous concepts and issues here so confusion is a natural outcome. > > > > > But, of course, most of our apparent disagreements are but as you > > > > point out…you believe that “the heart of man is fully set upon doing > > > > evil” while I do not. I say this not even knowing which “mystic laws” > > > > you suggest exist! > > > > > On Nov 21, 2:25 pm, pathfinder <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I am saying that the heart of man aka your heart, my heart, and the > > > > > hearts of all are set towards survival, gratification, pleasure, > > > > > curiousity, thrill, etc. We must learn to bring the heart into > > > > > conformity. Out of an instinct to survive, gratify, enjoy or whatever > > > > > the caes may be, I, you, man, woman, we do what we think is best for > > > > > ourselves if we do not apply the laws or their principles. We must > > > > > learn to do what is wanting without violating those Laws. > > > > > Collectively, we assume or believe that no one knows our thoughts, > > > > > motives, actions, so we are less likely to develope the restraints > > > > > upon ourselves necessary to truely be respectable towards the rights, > > > > > needs, concerns, etc., of our neighbor, our fellow-human-being. As > > one > > > > > experiment along these lines, recording the results, what they'll > > find > > > > > they have would be their experience. Watch the children, Allan. At > > > > > least two children, 1-3 years of age. One toy. Stay close and be > > ready > > > > > to teach. But you will see the heart of man there. So, unless you > > came > > > > > into this world by some other means, your's would be included amongst > > > > > the Heart of Man. > > > > > > On Nov 21, 9:12 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Interesting Edward, so you are saying your heart aka the heart of > > man is > > > > > > fully set upon doing evil ( contrary to the mystic laws)." Please > > explain to > > > > > > me why you are "fully set upon doing evil"? I hope you do not give > > a bunch > > > > > > of bible quotes but rather in your own words. > > > > > > Allan > > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 5:29 AM, pathfinder < > > [email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > I see sin as a concept that has been abused, misused, but never > > really > > > > > > > understood. I see it as a violation of any of those controlling > > > > > > > factors which we commonly refer to as 'laws'. Some of those we > > adapt > > > > > > > to early; like those of gravity, force, the elements, etc., > > because > > > > > > > the results of the violations are immediate. Still, on a higher > > level > > > > > > > the results are more subtle, and takes more time for the cosmos > > to > > > > > > > render the prefect vibrations. Wherefore, we continue until we > > get the > > > > > > > over-load, a lot of the times. Thus, the bible verse, 'Because > > the > > > > > > > judgement of the Lord is not executed speedily, the heart of man > > is > > > > > > > fully set upon doing evil ( contrary to the mystic laws)." So > > what we > > > > > > > would finish with would be relationship and not religion. A > > hamonious > > > > > > > relationship with the Laws natural to the earth/heaven factors. > > Then > > > > > > > the nations could use the soldiers on the farms, the polices > > building > > > > > > > structures, the politians, well,they still might need something > > that > > > > > > > they don't have to think about. We can defy some of these laws to > > a > > > > > > > certain extent, but we can't defeat any of them. Seeming to > > ignore > > > > > > > them is not a form of defeat. If one ever learn to live in that > > > > > > > hormony he don't want any of those laws defeated no way. The > > solution, > > > > > > > then becomes, too easy. With the magnitude of some of the > > problems in > > > > > > > this world, seems like nothing short of a major catastrophy on a > > > > > > > global scale could even come close to having some effect. May be > > true, > > > > > > > but, that catastrophy need be applied only to the old systems of > > > > > > > thoughts, produceing behavior. > > > > > > > > On Nov 20, 6:23 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Gabbers, while I may have discussed about yes/no issues, the > > notion of > > > > > > > > sin is not one of them. I do not accept the notion of sin. > > > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 4:06 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you do, orn. You argue along the same yes/no line. > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:46 PM, ornamentalmind < > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Accepting the notion of sin/salvation seems to be necessary > > for > > > > > > > > > > current day biblical dogma to make sense. Am I missing > > something > > > > > > > > > > there? Oh, and I don't accept said notion. > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 16, 11:54 pm, iam deheretic <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > every generation has its teachers and false teachers, > > prophets and > > > > > > > false > > > > > > > > > > > prophets. > > > > > > > > > > > personally I am not > > ... > > read more » > > Herz.jpg > 763KViewDownload- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
