Pat If I share an psychotic episode which I chose to call and spiritual experience ,, I can only tell you what i saw felt heard and experienced.. I am definitely not trying to sell you a bill of goods. rather share an experience if you think I am whacko that is fine.
Each person has their own personal set of beliefs thank God for that and I have no business changing them,, I do not understand your desire to express everything in math formulas or the passion of others for atheism or any set of beliefs for that matter . What I do know is that I can use the stones I stumble over on your path and the paths of others to polish my own path increasing my own understanding. It is in sharing our experience , strength and hope that make this group interesting. Allan On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 5:19 PM, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Nov 26, 1:47 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > If you have had those experiences, why do you still think in terms of > truth > > and lie??? This doesn't make any sense to me. > > > > That was in reference to trying to share one's experience. You have > to tell or write and the other person, without direct experience, must > be persuaded by your 'argument'. That's why I said "I can't share > those > experiences, I can only write them down or tell them, which isn't the > same as giving someone else that same experience. Rather, it requires > the reader/listener to believe that I'm speaking the truth, which > adds > a further layer of confounding, especially if the experience is > counter to the reader's/listener's pre-conceived belief." > > You can't give someone else the same experience, you can only give an > account OF the experience. And that account must be believed and, > when another person's experience doesn't have a similar experience to > relate to yours, the persuasion can be nigh on impossible. > > > Am 26.11.2010 14:23 schrieb "Pat" <[email protected]>: > > > > On Nov 26, 12:52 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:> Pat, dear, > I understand the negative... > > > > Nevertheless, that is irrelevant to my usage. > > > > >To me this is a neutral scientific term. > > > > and THAT was how I intended it to be taken. > > > > >Tell me, > > > which special ability do you have that allows you to make quantative > > > statements on ot... > > > > My point of view, which no one else has. ;-) > > > > To be fair, until another's subjective experience is laid out in full, > > I couldn't, in detail, comment upon it. > > > > If you would like to, for example, take the generic experience of > > 'seeing a ghost'; this is an experience 'most people' do not claim to > > have had, therefore most people pooh-pooh the concept, as they have no > > similar experience with which to compare. Personally, I've seen two > > things that, in my opinion, many would have thought to have been a > > ghost; however, I don't believe what I saw WAS, in fact, a ghost, as I > > know ALL the facts surrounding those experiences including the fact > > that both were 'upon awakening' and what was seen was very similar to > > the last thing about which I was dreaming. In both cases, I believe > > there was an overlapping of dream-to-waking phenomenon that made me > > think, for a moment, "wait, that looks like a ghost". But, after it > > faded, and I was able to put the dream-related information together > > with what my eyes saw, I 'thought differently' about what I'd seen. > > That's not to say I don't believe that people can see ghosts, but, as > > of yet, although I have two experiences that would have convinced > > many, I think there is a simpler explanation. > > So you see, I even put my OWN experiences to a very stringent tests > > and, only when I can find no other plausible reason, then, and only > > then, do I consider that the experience was rare indeed. > > > > Generalisations ARE just that, generalisations. They don't address > > specific scenarios. If you want to talk specifics, you'll have to > > site an example and give me ALL the information regarding it. Only > > then do I stand a chance at answering any questions about it. > > > > >What do you think makes > > > your experiences more special? > > > > I've had them and I know the full details OF them. "Most people", > > when hearing the details, would think I'm either a liar or a > > lunatic...but they weren't there and would think otherwise had they > > been. > > > > > > > > > Am 26.11.2010 13:18 schrieb "Pat" <[email protected]>: > > > > > On Nov 25, 5:54 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:> Pat, Pat, > > > > Pat... writing in his most... > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > -- ( ) I_D Allan Be Paranoid. God is always building a better idiot!!!
