On Nov 25, 5:54 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > Pat, Pat, Pat... writing in his most blasphemous God-mode again by mistaking > himself for God ... you should hang around here more often ... here is more > of yours ... "And most of us will have average experiences, which will tend > to limit our views." ... this is not criticizing mediocrity but a depiction > of one's own narrow scope of experience with the us that is used >
Most of us ARE average..by definition. That's not to be taken personally, but to be understood as a matter of fact as the numbers go. When I said 'us' in that statement, I intended 'The Human Population of the Planet'. > > > On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Nov 25, 2:04 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Nicely put, Pat. I think in addition, because our beliefs govern our > > > experience (set the limits of understanding, tone and circumstance > > > etc.,) seeing or understanding a different view may not be possible > > > for someone unable to suspend belief. I also agree that this is a > > > significant portion of humanity. > > > Also, there's the flip-side to that: our experiences govern our > > beliefs. I know that I've had a few VERY RARE experiences, which have > > greatly influenced my beliefs. However, I can't share those > > experiences, I can only write them down or tell them, which isn't the > > same as giving someone else that same experience. Rather, it requires > > the reader/listener to believe that I'm speaking the truth, which adds > > a further layer of confounding, especially if the experience is > > counter to the reader's/listener's pre-conceived belief. Also, as you > > say, it may not be possible for a reorganisation of beliefs for any > > given individual. Whilst it may be 'possible' (it will ALWAYS be > > possible), that doesn't mean it will be in the set of experiences of > > that given individual. And most of us will have average experiences, > > which will tend to limit our views. > > > > On Nov 25, 8:20 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Nov 24, 7:30 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > The will that makes you act against your apparent nature is your > > innate > > > > > nature. All that you strive for , the controls you exercise , and the > > > > > efforts you make is your innate nature. The doer in you is a slave of > > your > > > > > nature and your will is a tool of your nature whether apparent or > > innate. > > > > > Let's face it, RP, our will isn't even ours. And, if our will was > > > > 'free' it CERTAINLY wouldn't be ours, as it would be free from us. I > > > > know what you're saying. You're correct; but others are 'set' to > > > > disagree. So disagree they must. It's only those who have not, yet, > > > > decided on 'their view' yet or those who are intellectually honest > > > > enough to listen to alternatives to their views who 'might' be > > > > swayed. If it is in their future to be so, they will; if it is not, > > > > they won't. And that is irrespective of any evidence, conclusive, > > > > indicative or otherwise. 4-D space-time ends the argument > > > > scientifically; but THAT will never sway those who have belief that is > > > > believed so strongly as to deny facts. And, as there are so many > > > > people in today's world, there will be several thousand people who > > > > fall into that category. > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 2:05 AM, iam deheretic <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > There you are wrong RP my nature sez pull the trigger (Why I was > > never > > > > > > allowed to play the bad guy..)my not doing it is against my nature. > > > > > > Allan > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 4:42 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > >> What you choose to do and what you don't depends upon the way your > > brain > > > > > >> is functioning , if you are nuts God help me and if you are > > frustrated and > > > > > >> want to prove your point then also let God have pity upon me. What > > I mean to > > > > > >> say Allan is that you are under the control of your nature and > > that part of > > > > > >> you which strives to change and do is innate in you , in other > > words just as > > > > > >> much a part of your nature. > > > > > > >> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 8:53 PM, iam deheretic < > > [email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > >>> RP I have been lost as to what you are arguing there are some > > laws you > > > > > >>> can not change, but those laws are like thing example the speed > > of > > > > > >>> light,, but even that can be changed some what. I think what > > every one is > > > > > >>> talking about is the freedom of choice is in the nature of my > > taking my > > > > > >>> browning high power and deciding to airiate your head by putting > > several > > > > > >>> round through it. For me to do that would be totally of my > > choice. Now the > > > > > >>> only genetic part of it is that I am very capable of doing it and > > have had > > > > > >>> the training to develop the skills in handling the weapon. > > > > > >>> What keeps me from doing it is I choose not to. You can always > > find some > > > > > >>> argument to fit your view but when you are staring down the > > business end it > > > > > >>> stops being illusionary and you start praying the holder is not > > nuts. > > > > > >>> Allan > > > > > > >>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 3:08 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > >>>> We are the agents and therefore do everything which gives a > > false notion > > > > > >>>> of freedom , but actually whatever we do it is by God given > > Nature. Our > > > > > >>>> personality is an outcome of the interaction of our genetic > > makeup with the > > > > > >>>> environment , both of which are in the hands of nature. Our will > > to strive , > > > > > >>>> to control , to improve is innate in us and is therefore genetic > > in nature. > > > > > >>>> It is all a chain , one thing leads to another which gives us a > > false notion > > > > > >>>> of independence because our independence is dependent on so many > > factors , > > > > > >>>> some of which are under our control but that control is illusory > > as it is > > > > > >>>> due to the chain. The end result must be seen in the perspective > > of the > > > > > >>>> previous causative factors. > > > > > > >>>> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 5:35 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > >>>>> We just have different ideas about this and that's okay. I > > think we > > > > > >>>>> also participate in our own corruption- often- but it is easier > > to > > > > > >>>>> blame others or the situation. Our innate nature at birth is > > one of > > > > > >>>>> potential and quite dependent on a multitude of factors. I do > > not > > > > > >>>>> blame God nor think Him malevolent as we have free will within > > the > > > > > >>>>> constuct of Determinism- an unsolveable. The brain can trump > > Nature, > > > > > >>>>> in my opinion though we are bound. > > > > > > >>>>> On Nov 20, 8:13 am, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >>>>> > A man's innate nature is corrupted by others and that is not > > in one's > > > > > >>>>> hands. > > > > > >>>>> > Nature from inside and outside a person determines all > > actions, so > > > > > >>>>> whatever > > > > > >>>>> > happens it is ultimately God's will and there is nothing > > > > > >>>>> presumptuous in > > > > > >>>>> > accepting and recognizing that. > > > > > > >>>>> > On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:23 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > >>>>> > > For some it is the struggle to survive rather than > > strive.//You > > > > > >>>>> might > > > > > >>>>> > > want to acqaint yourself with Thomas Hardy- an early > > influence- > > > > > >>>>> esp. > > > > > >>>>> > > his "Tess of the D'Ubervilles" and "Jude the > > Obscure".//American > > > > > >>>>> > > Democracy lures immigrants with freedom but materialism > > suffocates > > > > > >>>>> > > them with greed and envy despite their often good nature > > and > > > > > >>>>> > > generosity.//I do think it presumptuous to decide God's > > plan for > > > > > >>>>> our > > > > > >>>>> > > lives- there are too many surprises along the way. Plus our > > innate > > > > > >>>>> > > nature can be corrupted in several ways. Adam and Eve wound > > up > > > > > >>>>> > > dysfunctional- look at Cain and Abel! > > > > > > >>>>> > > Have wounded a thumb slicing a potato on the mandolin (a > > kitchen > > > > > >>>>> > > tool). Difficult to type and surf. :-( > > > > > > >>>>> > > On Nov 19, 4:29 am, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >>>>> > > > The " I " is self-sense which is just a reflection of the > > Self or > > > > > >>>>> God. > > > > > >>>>> > > Our > > > > > >>>>> > > > will is totally bound by nature , when we strive and > > struggle it > > > > > >>>>> is > > > > > >>>>> > > because > > > > > >>>>> > > > of our innate nature which was given to us. The effect is > > always > > > > > >>>>> a result > > > > > >>>>> > > of > > > > > >>>>> > > > the cause and not vice versa. > > > > > > >>>>> > > > On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 1:43 AM, > > [email protected] < > > > > > > >>>>> > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >>>>> > > > > RP Singh. > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > So it is not you then? What is you? When people say > > that we > > > > > >>>>> can > > > > > >>>>> > > > > achive via the application of our will what does this > > mean? > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > There is I think in all of us a sense of 'Self''. What > > then is > > > > > >>>>> this > > > > > >>>>> > > > > Self? > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > On Nov 18, 5:01 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > " My " or " will " is the agent of Nature and is > > bound by It > > > > > >>>>> though > > > > > >>>>> > > > > seeming > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > to be free. > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 9:36 PM, > > > > > >>>>> [email protected] < > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > RP Singh, > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > I agree we are all products of our enviroments, I > > cannot > > > > > >>>>> cease to > > > > > >>>>> > > have > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > dark hair even if I wished, but I can choose to > > apply some > > > > > >>>>> dye to > > > > > >>>>> > > it. > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > You used the word 'MY' quiet a lot in your response > > to me, > > > > > >>>>> along > > > > > >>>>> > > with > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > the word 'WILL'. If you have no choice then what > > is > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
