Hey Jo, Death remains a mystery to us because as yet nobody has ever returned after death to let us know what it is all about, and I must assume as nobody has yet done so in the millenia of human life then it is likely that nobody will ever do so.
As to acting out side of the norm, well what is normal and what is out side of normal? I think that what ever an individual, or a group does, says or thinks must be normal. I mean within the normal parameters of whatever it means to be human. Simply put if a human does, says or thinks, as it is a human doing it, it must be normal human behaviour. On Aug 11, 4:29 pm, Jo <[email protected]> wrote: > Okay please excuse me if this has already been discussed before. Often > times I think myself into a corner and these questions frustrate me to > no end. No one knows what happens after death. Some believe that death > is the end. I would like to know why it has to be such a big secret! > > We’re obviously a part of some cycle. I find it hard to believe that > we cease to exist after death. I think death is merely a change. What > if our survival instinct is directly linked to learning what occurs > after death or before life? Before we have a chance reason things out > our instinct to survive forces us to assimilate. > > We’re equipped with emotions which are required for developing > socially. We see this in babies who develop their social skills by > studying the faces of those around them. So obviously we need to > interact with each other. What if discovering the meaning of life or > what occurs after death is something that we’ll discover collectively? > What happens when a mass of people die at once like in war or a > natural disaster? > > And about this idea of God; What if we needed to believe that we were > being watched in order to implement laws to govern ourselves? Do we > not (for the most part) act in accordance whenever we think we’re > being watched? > > We seem to have a fascination for risk takers, good and bad. Why is > that? Does acting outside of the norm help us discover more about > these mysteries? Why do they have to be mysteries in the first place?! > > On Aug 11, 6:38 am, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Long deliberations , introspection , observation and study are the > > precursors of the training I speak of. You have read Patanjali yoga , > > I ask you to widen your browsing and deliberate and introspect in > > solitude , if possible. I cannot give you any guarantee as you > > yourself cannot to those who are following the Raja yoga system of > > Patanjali with a sureshot experience of the absolute. Of course you > > can give an assurance in a future life which I cannot as I don't > > believe in an after-life.On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Vam > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > "... it takes a trained understanding to know the truth." > > > > RP, tell us more specifically about > > > > (1) training you speak of, > > > (2) the understanding that would be accrue with the training, and > > > (3) the truth we will know upon the understanding. > > > > Will you ? > > > > On Aug 11, 2:45 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> I can open my fingers or close them , i.e. free will is obvious. Most > > >> people can see only the obvious , it takes a trained understanding to > > >> know the truth. > > > >> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 11:39 AM, allan deheretic <[email protected]> > > >> wrote: > > >> > Sorry RP Vam has both the wisdom and authority to make such a > > >> > statement. > > >> > Allan > > > >> > On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 4:20 AM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> Vehement language , Vam , I don't think you have the authority to use > > >> >> such words against others. Maybe , you are a great success but what > > >> >> makes you think that all others having a determinist view are spent > > >> >> people ? > > > >> >> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 1:57 AM, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> > "... if we can reflect upon ourselves- as > > >> >> > an object- we have created distance from those markers-determiners- > > >> >> > and can choose in an independent manner- thoughts, actions." > > > >> >> > This is the kind of experiential understanding and empowerment I was > > >> >> > speaking of ! > > > >> >> > Most people do not discover this. And if they do, they do not > > >> >> > practice > > >> >> > it enough to lead to empowerment. It is because of this that they > > >> >> > continue to look upon themselves as programmed robots and > > >> >> > automatons, > > >> >> > and continue to doubt the clear measure of power they have to choose > > >> >> > their beliefs, thoughts, words and action. Then they project it over > > >> >> > entire humanity, as us all being some creation of some obscure god > > >> >> > playing fiddle. Fking shit ! Such regressives should be barred from > > >> >> > public activity, and sent to a correction facility instead. > > > >> >> > On Aug 10, 5:53 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> >> Well, Hocking made some sense to me about Free Will- though I could > > >> >> >> read it again. It goes like this- if we can reflect upon > > >> >> >> ourselves- as > > >> >> >> an object- we have created distance from those markers-determiners- > > >> >> >> and can choose in an independent manner- thoughts, actions. > > >> >> >> Reflection > > >> >> >> is an endless process rather than fixed. But- "freedom is a matter > > >> >> >> of > > >> >> >> degree". > > > >> >> >> On Aug 10, 5:26 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> >> > Yes it does not mean that that they do not exist, but it does > > >> >> >> > mean > > >> >> >> > that this stance is as aI say a best guess, or perhaps we shall > > >> >> >> > call > > >> >> >> > it an inferance. > > > >> >> >> > Yes again I belive that these markers may well be part of the > > >> >> >> > desicion, yet you can still choose to act contrary to any of > > >> >> >> > these > > >> >> >> > markers. > > > >> >> >> > If you are non violent you act in a violent mannor, if you are > > >> >> >> > violent > > >> >> >> > you can choose to not use violence. And what is a marker, is it > > >> >> >> > a > > >> >> >> > force or as the word suggests a marker? > > > >> >> >> > On Aug 9, 10:23 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> >> > > We can point to many causes- our genes, mental and physical > > >> >> >> > > health > > >> >> >> > > of > > >> >> >> > > mother before, during and after pregnancy, early bonding and > > >> >> >> > > childhood > > >> >> >> > > development, placement in family, economic and social > > >> >> >> > > influences, > > >> >> >> > > etc. > > >> >> >> > > Even the country of birth and historical period matter. Reason > > >> >> >> > > doesn't > > >> >> >> > > kick in until around age seven and many early influences are > > >> >> >> > > forgotten, misinterpreted or markers for life. The fact that > > >> >> >> > > one > > >> >> >> > > cannot readily trace back to initial influences and causes > > >> >> >> > > does not > > >> >> >> > > mean that they don't exist. At the moment of choice, I believe > > >> >> >> > > these > > >> >> >> > > markers are part of the decision- even if the decision is to > > >> >> >> > > reject > > >> >> >> > > the influences and do the exact opposite of the past- like a > > >> >> >> > > child > > >> >> >> > > who > > >> >> >> > > swears he will be different than the parent but winds up being > > >> >> >> > > similar > > >> >> >> > > or tries to out-do the parent and fails. > > > >> >> >> > > On Aug 9, 8:38 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> >> > > > Heh heh Rigsy. > > > >> >> >> > > > Nope I think the deterministic stance is kinda like a best > > >> >> >> > > > guess. > > >> >> >> > > > I mean for us to be sure that our lives are determined we > > >> >> >> > > > need to > > >> >> >> > > > coreleate all causes. > > > >> >> >> > > > Besides, I do not belive that cause and effect bars our > > >> >> >> > > > freedom > > >> >> >> > > > of > > >> >> >> > > > choice. > > > >> >> >> > > > On Aug 9, 12:41 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> >> > > > > One's will is shaped by numerous influences and experiences > > >> >> >> > > > > therefore > > >> >> >> > > > > it is determined. Notes from the Underground-D does not > > >> >> >> > > > > convince me > > >> >> >> > > > > otherwise. I'll see if Hocking can offer something. > > > >> >> >> > > > > You really have to be a detective of self and follow choice > > >> >> >> > > > > back to > > >> >> >> > > > > its root cause. Maybe you are too young or busy! :-) > > > >> >> >> > > > > On Aug 8, 6:12 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> > > >> >> >> > > > > wrote: > > > >> >> >> > > > > > Ahh then I see. I do not belive that choice and free > > >> >> >> > > > > > will > > >> >> >> > > > > > are > > >> >> >> > > > > > seperate things at all. > > > >> >> >> > > > > > Let us look at the words. > > > >> >> >> > > > > > Free will. > > > >> >> >> > > > > > The ability to chose in acordance with your will. > > > >> >> >> > > > > > On Aug 8, 11:47 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > Haven't you noticed trying to get from A to B and > > >> >> >> > > > > > > winding > > >> >> >> > > > > > > up at C? I > > >> >> >> > > > > > > have. So far I have been going over some stuff by > > >> >> >> > > > > > > Sophocles. > > >> >> >> > > > > > > Epictetus, Zola, Marx&Engels, Huxley and Skinner > > >> >> >> > > > > > > (Determinists) but > > >> >> >> > > > > > > have to read Dostoyevsky and Hocking (Free Will). I > > >> >> >> > > > > > > think > > >> >> >> > > > > > > there is a > > >> >> >> > > > > > > difference between choice and free will. I make > > >> >> >> > > > > > > choices all > > >> >> >> > > > > > > the time > > >> >> >> > > > > > > but am not sure my will is really free. > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > On Aug 8, 5:07 am, Lee Douglas > > >> >> >> > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > >> >> >> > > > > > > wrote: > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > Ohh I disagree with this entirley Rigsy. > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > At the time the Minds says take action B, then we > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > have > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > made a choice. > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > I question the ability of things to force a desicion > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > from > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > us and I'l > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > ask once again is it possible for somebody to force > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > anybody into > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > makeing a choice that they do not want to? > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > On Aug 6, 2:22 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > I disagree that we possess or always have free > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > will at > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > our disposal- > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > even the civil laws make distinctions. We are > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > forced > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > onto many paths > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > and decisions- softly or harshly. > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 2:04 pm, Allan Heretic > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > You lays have free will no matter how you seeing > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > it > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > created. It is the- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -... > > read more »
