So Lee, you discount the reports of those who share their experiences of reincarnation?
On Aug 12, 2:07 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > Hey Jo, > > Death remains a mystery to us because as yet nobody has ever returned > after death to let us know what it is all about, and I must assume as > nobody has yet done so in the millenia of human life then it is likely > that nobody will ever do so. > > As to acting out side of the norm, well what is normal and what is out > side of normal? I think that what ever an individual, or a group > does, says or thinks must be normal. I mean within the normal > parameters of whatever it means to be human. Simply put if a human > does, says or thinks, as it is a human doing it, it must be normal > human behaviour. > > On Aug 11, 4:29 pm, Jo <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Okay please excuse me if this has already been discussed before. Often > > times I think myself into a corner and these questions frustrate me to > > no end. No one knows what happens after death. Some believe that death > > is the end. I would like to know why it has to be such a big secret! > > > We’re obviously a part of some cycle. I find it hard to believe that > > we cease to exist after death. I think death is merely a change. What > > if our survival instinct is directly linked to learning what occurs > > after death or before life? Before we have a chance reason things out > > our instinct to survive forces us to assimilate. > > > We’re equipped with emotions which are required for developing > > socially. We see this in babies who develop their social skills by > > studying the faces of those around them. So obviously we need to > > interact with each other. What if discovering the meaning of life or > > what occurs after death is something that we’ll discover collectively? > > What happens when a mass of people die at once like in war or a > > natural disaster? > > > And about this idea of God; What if we needed to believe that we were > > being watched in order to implement laws to govern ourselves? Do we > > not (for the most part) act in accordance whenever we think we’re > > being watched? > > > We seem to have a fascination for risk takers, good and bad. Why is > > that? Does acting outside of the norm help us discover more about > > these mysteries? Why do they have to be mysteries in the first place?! > > > On Aug 11, 6:38 am, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Long deliberations , introspection , observation and study are the > > > precursors of the training I speak of. You have read Patanjali yoga , > > > I ask you to widen your browsing and deliberate and introspect in > > > solitude , if possible. I cannot give you any guarantee as you > > > yourself cannot to those who are following the Raja yoga system of > > > Patanjali with a sureshot experience of the absolute. Of course you > > > can give an assurance in a future life which I cannot as I don't > > > believe in an after-life.On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Vam > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > "... it takes a trained understanding to know the truth." > > > > > RP, tell us more specifically about > > > > > (1) training you speak of, > > > > (2) the understanding that would be accrue with the training, and > > > > (3) the truth we will know upon the understanding. > > > > > Will you ? > > > > > On Aug 11, 2:45 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> I can open my fingers or close them , i.e. free will is obvious. Most > > > >> people can see only the obvious , it takes a trained understanding to > > > >> know the truth. > > > > >> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 11:39 AM, allan deheretic > > > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > Sorry RP Vam has both the wisdom and authority to make such a > > > >> > statement. > > > >> > Allan > > > > >> > On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 4:20 AM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> >> Vehement language , Vam , I don't think you have the authority to > > > >> >> use > > > >> >> such words against others. Maybe , you are a great success but what > > > >> >> makes you think that all others having a determinist view are spent > > > >> >> people ? > > > > >> >> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 1:57 AM, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> > "... if we can reflect upon ourselves- as > > > >> >> > an object- we have created distance from those > > > >> >> > markers-determiners- > > > >> >> > and can choose in an independent manner- thoughts, actions." > > > > >> >> > This is the kind of experiential understanding and empowerment I > > > >> >> > was > > > >> >> > speaking of ! > > > > >> >> > Most people do not discover this. And if they do, they do not > > > >> >> > practice > > > >> >> > it enough to lead to empowerment. It is because of this that they > > > >> >> > continue to look upon themselves as programmed robots and > > > >> >> > automatons, > > > >> >> > and continue to doubt the clear measure of power they have to > > > >> >> > choose > > > >> >> > their beliefs, thoughts, words and action. Then they project it > > > >> >> > over > > > >> >> > entire humanity, as us all being some creation of some obscure god > > > >> >> > playing fiddle. Fking shit ! Such regressives should be barred > > > >> >> > from > > > >> >> > public activity, and sent to a correction facility instead. > > > > >> >> > On Aug 10, 5:53 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> >> Well, Hocking made some sense to me about Free Will- though I > > > >> >> >> could > > > >> >> >> read it again. It goes like this- if we can reflect upon > > > >> >> >> ourselves- as > > > >> >> >> an object- we have created distance from those > > > >> >> >> markers-determiners- > > > >> >> >> and can choose in an independent manner- thoughts, actions. > > > >> >> >> Reflection > > > >> >> >> is an endless process rather than fixed. But- "freedom is a > > > >> >> >> matter of > > > >> >> >> degree". > > > > >> >> >> On Aug 10, 5:26 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> >> >> > Yes it does not mean that that they do not exist, but it does > > > >> >> >> > mean > > > >> >> >> > that this stance is as aI say a best guess, or perhaps we > > > >> >> >> > shall call > > > >> >> >> > it an inferance. > > > > >> >> >> > Yes again I belive that these markers may well be part of the > > > >> >> >> > desicion, yet you can still choose to act contrary to any of > > > >> >> >> > these > > > >> >> >> > markers. > > > > >> >> >> > If you are non violent you act in a violent mannor, if you are > > > >> >> >> > violent > > > >> >> >> > you can choose to not use violence. And what is a marker, is > > > >> >> >> > it a > > > >> >> >> > force or as the word suggests a marker? > > > > >> >> >> > On Aug 9, 10:23 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> >> >> > > We can point to many causes- our genes, mental and physical > > > >> >> >> > > health > > > >> >> >> > > of > > > >> >> >> > > mother before, during and after pregnancy, early bonding and > > > >> >> >> > > childhood > > > >> >> >> > > development, placement in family, economic and social > > > >> >> >> > > influences, > > > >> >> >> > > etc. > > > >> >> >> > > Even the country of birth and historical period matter. > > > >> >> >> > > Reason > > > >> >> >> > > doesn't > > > >> >> >> > > kick in until around age seven and many early influences are > > > >> >> >> > > forgotten, misinterpreted or markers for life. The fact that > > > >> >> >> > > one > > > >> >> >> > > cannot readily trace back to initial influences and causes > > > >> >> >> > > does not > > > >> >> >> > > mean that they don't exist. At the moment of choice, I > > > >> >> >> > > believe > > > >> >> >> > > these > > > >> >> >> > > markers are part of the decision- even if the decision is to > > > >> >> >> > > reject > > > >> >> >> > > the influences and do the exact opposite of the past- like a > > > >> >> >> > > child > > > >> >> >> > > who > > > >> >> >> > > swears he will be different than the parent but winds up > > > >> >> >> > > being > > > >> >> >> > > similar > > > >> >> >> > > or tries to out-do the parent and fails. > > > > >> >> >> > > On Aug 9, 8:38 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> > > > >> >> >> > > wrote: > > > > >> >> >> > > > Heh heh Rigsy. > > > > >> >> >> > > > Nope I think the deterministic stance is kinda like a best > > > >> >> >> > > > guess. > > > >> >> >> > > > I mean for us to be sure that our lives are determined we > > > >> >> >> > > > need to > > > >> >> >> > > > coreleate all causes. > > > > >> >> >> > > > Besides, I do not belive that cause and effect bars our > > > >> >> >> > > > freedom > > > >> >> >> > > > of > > > >> >> >> > > > choice. > > > > >> >> >> > > > On Aug 9, 12:41 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> >> >> > > > > One's will is shaped by numerous influences and > > > >> >> >> > > > > experiences > > > >> >> >> > > > > therefore > > > >> >> >> > > > > it is determined. Notes from the Underground-D does not > > > >> >> >> > > > > convince me > > > >> >> >> > > > > otherwise. I'll see if Hocking can offer something. > > > > >> >> >> > > > > You really have to be a detective of self and follow > > > >> >> >> > > > > choice > > > >> >> >> > > > > back to > > > >> >> >> > > > > its root cause. Maybe you are too young or busy! :-) > > > > >> >> >> > > > > On Aug 8, 6:12 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> > > > >> >> >> > > > > wrote: > > > > >> >> >> > > > > > Ahh then I see. I do not belive that choice and free > > > >> >> >> > > > > > will > > > >> >> >> > > > > > are > > > >> >> >> > > > > > seperate things at all. > > > > >> >> >> > > > > > Let us look at the words. > > > > >> >> >> > > > > > Free will. > > > > >> >> >> > > > > > The ability to chose in acordance with your will. > > > > >> >> >> > > > > > On Aug 8, 11:47 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > Haven't you noticed trying to get from A to B and > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > winding > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > up at C? I > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > have. So far I have been going over some stuff by > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > Sophocles. > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > Epictetus, Zola, Marx&Engels, Huxley and Skinner > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > (Determinists) but > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > have to read Dostoyevsky and Hocking (Free Will). I > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > think > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > there is a > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > difference between choice and free will. I make > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > choices all > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > the time > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > but am not sure my will is really free. > > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > On Aug 8, 5:07 am, Lee Douglas > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > Ohh I disagree with this entirley Rigsy. > > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > At the time the Minds says take action B, then we > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > have > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > made a > > ... > > read more »
