" Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for specific acts or purposes ... "
If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man, it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been programmed but it would be more clever than every other man on the planet ! On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote: > > And certain ants have also figured out how to enter the honey bee as a > parasite which has an ominous impact on pollination. Species pick up > their behaviors from their groups- some are more dedicated- patterns > can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating worth with money/ > salary?//Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for specific > acts or purposes but still short of general intelligence, insight and > adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily "lousey" except the final > chapter is death and certain goals were not realized or possible. Hard > work/age does not create arthritis- that is a myth. The 12 year old > across the street has arthritis and started some exercise for > violinists. > > On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > The archaeological evidence is that such things as the move to farming > > from hunter-gathering did not improve the human lot for those who > > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the work). The obvious issue > > for present society concerns the dubious status of our work and life- > > style ideologies. Slave-making ants kill the adults in their host > > ants and steal the 'eggs' in order to steal the work as they become > > adult by making them raise their own brood. Even in enslaved ant > > consciousness something inspires 'rebellion' and 'duty' to the wider > > collective. Humans have a sad history of enslavement and debt > > peonage. > > Undergraduates can be heard every year bemoaning salaries on offer for > > 'all their hard work' - few of them have done any! The Chinese refer > > to their graduates who don't get the good jobs as 'Ant People'. Some > > of my old colleagues inside technological manufacturing used to note > > the need for workers was disappearing faster than most knew as work > > and skill is embodied in technology (an old marxist theme). My own > > feeling is that we have killed off much valuable stuff that James > > suggests through the ejukation system - falsely imagining subjects > > designed in our dubious past teach anything other than control fraud. > > Even medical training involves a lot of unnecessary rot. > > Some of us think machines are better at 'thinking' than most people > > (soon Gabby will be made redundant from her Gad-fly role once I clear > > up a few teething problems with the bots!), partly because no human > > can encompass the data loads. Allan and I share problems with our > > 'flash memory' - buzz, ping, PTSD etc. - (it's my time of year to have > > flash-backs to Northern Ireland) - getting old is lousy - soon my > > friendly solid state world will move from Enlightenment to > > Entanglement as I stroke Schrodinger's cat. We have now done this > > experimentally with some tinkering. > > Memory is increasingly viewed as about our ability to predict the > > future - that is its purpose is for this. We find it in non-human > > life-forms too. This is related to a general science-view of why a > > system would invest in the resources to have memory at all. I'll > > leave this babble with the question 'where do the Spartacus ants > > raised by the slavers get the memories that inspire rebellion'? > > > > On 6 Oct, 19:50, James <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From another perspective one might like to appreciate the role (or a > > > role) of life as within an integral spectrum. If there is a world with > > > meaning beyond our conceptions it would present a challenge to > undertake > > > exploration and discovery. Regardless of conception or outside our > > > capacity we might be bound by greater rules in nature. These are > > > questions I think that arise when the suspicion of being led becomes > too > > > great to ignore, fear has a corrupting influence on that as does the > > > diverse symbols at our disposal provided by language, corrupting as in > > > coloring and distorting. But the tools of identity, shared language > and > > > meanings can facilitate discovery. Internal motives can present a > > > struggle for a clear picture, and yet without them what impetus would > > > there be? Context is amazingly significant, the when and where, I've > > > found. That is in part a few features of what I am exploring > currently, > > > among the jumble. This can be intimate stuff, thanks for sharing what > > > you gather. :) > > > > > On 10/5/2012 4:25 AM, Allan H wrote: > > > > > > Lately I have been trying to get out of this physical concept of > things > > > > and look at them from a souls to return to soul with the body as > nothing > > > > more than a means of existing in this physical world. this seems to > be > > > > changing the perspective on what is conceived as reality. > > > > Allan > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:50 AM, James <[email protected] > > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > > > We may be on the same page Gabby, my imagined future > possibilities > > > > are still clouded by unknowns (to me). That I consider a > consequence > > > > of mental bondage to current circumstances, and left unchecked > can > > > > be demoralizing to creative intelligence. As far as I can tell > we > > > > are meant to invent solutions to challenges, and hold on as long > as > > > > possible until the opportunity arises. My opinion is that we can > do > > > > little to force change but as facilitators we can pursue > strategic > > > > challenges that will open those opportunities. > > > > > > If I said that in 10 years the technology should be accessible > to > > > > refine garbage, wood or any other fuel into electricity at 80+ > > > > conversion efficiency from common household materials in your > > > > average (modern) garage there is no shortage of engineers that > would > > > > call me a quack. If I said that you could do it today with > moderate > > > > access to materials refining equipment, with a net generated > income > > > > over the winter months, and it could be boosted by running a > > > > greenhouse and indoor fishery I would be surely nuts. SOFC, > steam > > > > reforming, plasma reduction, pyrolytic reduction are a few terms > for > > > > that type of nut. > > > > > > I think we are missing the spirit of engineering in our social > and > > > > political dialogue. It could just be me.. we seem to be able to > > > > redefine just about any kind of waste into an asset, but we > insist > > > > that primitive human traits are superior and sacrosanct. > > > > > > Navigating awkward transitions, that is what I think we are > doing > > > > (not necessarily excellently, but making progress). Still > passin' > > > > the buck here, your turn. Sorry for no answer Archy, too bad > > > > telepathy isn't an option because the picture is clear but I > just > > > > don't trust the words yet. > > > > > > On 10/4/2012 5:14 AM, gabbydott wrote: > > > > > > That's right. Us end consumers of your brilliant ideas need > time to > > > > consume your complex theories in simple practice for you to > see > > > > where > > > > we fail to get your idea for you to better educate and > motivate > > > > us. :p > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 4:25 AM, James<[email protected] > > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > > > I was hoping we could evolve sociologically in step with > > > > technology, that > > > > implies an intelligent management infrastructure that > > > > educates and motivates > > > > free agents to make contributions to the works of > humanity. > > > > Suitably > > > > educated in the workings of organisms (especially how > they > > > > relate and > > > > compare to man), the arts, sciences, elimination of > > > > destitution, poverty, > > > > mental illnesses, the list goes on.. It requires that we > > > > manage things > > > > intelligently, learn from mistakes and move forward. If > this > > > > progress > > > > happened in a 100 years I think we would likely reduce > our > > > > population to > > > > half within the next hundred, there is nothing logical > about > > > > reproducing ad > > > > infinitum and by then the social costs should be obvious > > > > enough, added to > > > > the lack of need as we extend the human lifespan. I > think we > > > > have a large > > > > potential in voluntary acts. > > > > > > Who is pie in the sky now? :p > > > > > > On 10/3/2012 5:57 PM, archytas wrote: > > > > > > If workers aren't needed for work, what will happen > to > > > > them? The > > > > animal and plant world answer is generally a 'return > to > > > > nutrients'. > > > > > > On 3 Oct, 09:57, Shekila > > > > Tieschmaker<[email protected] > > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > how do you get out this group thing ? > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > > From: James<[email protected] > > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > > > To: [email protected] <javascript:> > > > > <mailto:[email protected]<javascript:>> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 10:26 PM > > > > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye thought experiments > > > > > > Well it is far worse (or better depending on > who > > > > is looking at it), many > > > > of the older trades and crafts-people I've > met > > > > had an appreciation for > > > > seeing their work as an artform. That would > be > > > > my robot heaven, working > > > > toward a world where we can all pursue > meaning > > > > and purposeful work without > > > > the burden of resource scarcity. What would > it > > > > matter that someone wants to > > > > be a plumber or architect in a day when > those > > > > positions are obsolete, if > > > > that is pursuing meaning, it would matter > little > > > > more than > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > --
