It will always have limitations Allan On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 12:56 AM, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > " Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for specific > acts or purposes ... " > > If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man, > > it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been programmed > > but it would be more clever than every other man on the planet ! > > > On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote: >> >> And certain ants have also figured out how to enter the honey bee as a >> parasite which has an ominous impact on pollination. Species pick up >> their behaviors from their groups- some are more dedicated- patterns >> can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating worth with money/ >> salary?//Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to >> be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for specific >> acts or purposes but still short of general intelligence, insight and >> adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily "lousey" except the final >> chapter is death and certain goals were not realized or possible. Hard >> work/age does not create arthritis- that is a myth. The 12 year old >> across the street has arthritis and started some exercise for >> violinists. >> >> On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> > The archaeological evidence is that such things as the move to farming >> > from hunter-gathering did not improve the human lot for those who >> > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the work). The obvious issue >> > for present society concerns the dubious status of our work and life- >> > style ideologies. Slave-making ants kill the adults in their host >> > ants and steal the 'eggs' in order to steal the work as they become >> > adult by making them raise their own brood. Even in enslaved ant >> > consciousness something inspires 'rebellion' and 'duty' to the wider >> > collective. Humans have a sad history of enslavement and debt >> > peonage. >> > Undergraduates can be heard every year bemoaning salaries on offer for >> > 'all their hard work' - few of them have done any! The Chinese refer >> > to their graduates who don't get the good jobs as 'Ant People'. Some >> > of my old colleagues inside technological manufacturing used to note >> > the need for workers was disappearing faster than most knew as work >> > and skill is embodied in technology (an old marxist theme). My own >> > feeling is that we have killed off much valuable stuff that James >> > suggests through the ejukation system - falsely imagining subjects >> > designed in our dubious past teach anything other than control fraud. >> > Even medical training involves a lot of unnecessary rot. >> > Some of us think machines are better at 'thinking' than most people >> > (soon Gabby will be made redundant from her Gad-fly role once I clear >> > up a few teething problems with the bots!), partly because no human >> > can encompass the data loads. Allan and I share problems with our >> > 'flash memory' - buzz, ping, PTSD etc. - (it's my time of year to have >> > flash-backs to Northern Ireland) - getting old is lousy - soon my >> > friendly solid state world will move from Enlightenment to >> > Entanglement as I stroke Schrodinger's cat. We have now done this >> > experimentally with some tinkering. >> > Memory is increasingly viewed as about our ability to predict the >> > future - that is its purpose is for this. We find it in non-human >> > life-forms too. This is related to a general science-view of why a >> > system would invest in the resources to have memory at all. I'll >> > leave this babble with the question 'where do the Spartacus ants >> > raised by the slavers get the memories that inspire rebellion'? >> > >> > On 6 Oct, 19:50, James <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > > From another perspective one might like to appreciate the role (or a >> > > role) of life as within an integral spectrum. If there is a world with >> > > meaning beyond our conceptions it would present a challenge to >> > > undertake >> > > exploration and discovery. Regardless of conception or outside our >> > > capacity we might be bound by greater rules in nature. These are >> > > questions I think that arise when the suspicion of being led becomes >> > > too >> > > great to ignore, fear has a corrupting influence on that as does the >> > > diverse symbols at our disposal provided by language, corrupting as in >> > > coloring and distorting. But the tools of identity, shared language >> > > and >> > > meanings can facilitate discovery. Internal motives can present a >> > > struggle for a clear picture, and yet without them what impetus would >> > > there be? Context is amazingly significant, the when and where, I've >> > > found. That is in part a few features of what I am exploring >> > > currently, >> > > among the jumble. This can be intimate stuff, thanks for sharing what >> > > you gather. :) >> > >> > > On 10/5/2012 4:25 AM, Allan H wrote: >> > >> > > > Lately I have been trying to get out of this physical concept of >> > > > things >> > > > and look at them from a souls to return to soul with the body as >> > > > nothing >> > > > more than a means of existing in this physical world. this seems to >> > > > be >> > > > changing the perspective on what is conceived as reality. >> > > > Allan >> > >> > > > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:50 AM, James <[email protected] >> > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> > >> > > > We may be on the same page Gabby, my imagined future >> > > > possibilities >> > > > are still clouded by unknowns (to me). That I consider a >> > > > consequence >> > > > of mental bondage to current circumstances, and left unchecked >> > > > can >> > > > be demoralizing to creative intelligence. As far as I can tell >> > > > we >> > > > are meant to invent solutions to challenges, and hold on as long >> > > > as >> > > > possible until the opportunity arises. My opinion is that we can >> > > > do >> > > > little to force change but as facilitators we can pursue >> > > > strategic >> > > > challenges that will open those opportunities. >> > >> > > > If I said that in 10 years the technology should be accessible >> > > > to >> > > > refine garbage, wood or any other fuel into electricity at 80+ >> > > > conversion efficiency from common household materials in your >> > > > average (modern) garage there is no shortage of engineers that >> > > > would >> > > > call me a quack. If I said that you could do it today with >> > > > moderate >> > > > access to materials refining equipment, with a net generated >> > > > income >> > > > over the winter months, and it could be boosted by running a >> > > > greenhouse and indoor fishery I would be surely nuts. SOFC, >> > > > steam >> > > > reforming, plasma reduction, pyrolytic reduction are a few terms >> > > > for >> > > > that type of nut. >> > >> > > > I think we are missing the spirit of engineering in our social >> > > > and >> > > > political dialogue. It could just be me.. we seem to be able to >> > > > redefine just about any kind of waste into an asset, but we >> > > > insist >> > > > that primitive human traits are superior and sacrosanct. >> > >> > > > Navigating awkward transitions, that is what I think we are >> > > > doing >> > > > (not necessarily excellently, but making progress). Still >> > > > passin' >> > > > the buck here, your turn. Sorry for no answer Archy, too bad >> > > > telepathy isn't an option because the picture is clear but I >> > > > just >> > > > don't trust the words yet. >> > >> > > > On 10/4/2012 5:14 AM, gabbydott wrote: >> > >> > > > That's right. Us end consumers of your brilliant ideas need >> > > > time to >> > > > consume your complex theories in simple practice for you to >> > > > see >> > > > where >> > > > we fail to get your idea for you to better educate and >> > > > motivate >> > > > us. :p >> > >> > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 4:25 AM, James<[email protected] >> > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> > >> > > > I was hoping we could evolve sociologically in step with >> > > > technology, that >> > > > implies an intelligent management infrastructure that >> > > > educates and motivates >> > > > free agents to make contributions to the works of >> > > > humanity. >> > > > Suitably >> > > > educated in the workings of organisms (especially how >> > > > they >> > > > relate and >> > > > compare to man), the arts, sciences, elimination of >> > > > destitution, poverty, >> > > > mental illnesses, the list goes on.. It requires that we >> > > > manage things >> > > > intelligently, learn from mistakes and move forward. If >> > > > this >> > > > progress >> > > > happened in a 100 years I think we would likely reduce >> > > > our >> > > > population to >> > > > half within the next hundred, there is nothing logical >> > > > about >> > > > reproducing ad >> > > > infinitum and by then the social costs should be obvious >> > > > enough, added to >> > > > the lack of need as we extend the human lifespan. I >> > > > think we >> > > > have a large >> > > > potential in voluntary acts. >> > >> > > > Who is pie in the sky now? :p >> > >> > > > On 10/3/2012 5:57 PM, archytas wrote: >> > >> > > > If workers aren't needed for work, what will happen >> > > > to >> > > > them? The >> > > > animal and plant world answer is generally a 'return >> > > > to >> > > > nutrients'. >> > >> > > > On 3 Oct, 09:57, Shekila >> > > > Tieschmaker<[email protected] >> > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> >> > > > wrote: >> > >> > > > how do you get out this group thing ? >> > >> > > > __________________________________ >> > > > From: James<[email protected] >> > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> >> > > > To: [email protected] >> > > > <mailto:[email protected]> >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 10:26 PM >> > > > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye thought experiments >> > >> > > > Well it is far worse (or better depending on >> > > > who >> > > > is looking at it), many >> > > > of the older trades and crafts-people I've >> > > > met >> > > > had an appreciation for >> > > > seeing their work as an artform. That would >> > > > be >> > > > my robot heaven, working >> > > > toward a world where we can all pursue >> > > > meaning >> > > > and purposeful work without >> > > > the burden of resource scarcity. What would >> > > > it >> > > > matter that someone wants to >> > > > be a plumber or architect in a day when >> > > > those >> > > > positions are obsolete, if >> > > > that is pursuing meaning, it would matter >> > > > little >> > > > more than >> > >> > ... >> > >> > read more ยป- Hide quoted text - >> > >> > - Show quoted text - > > -- > > >
-- ( ) |_D Allan Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. I am a Natural Airgunner - Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly. --
