Bingo ! * sounding the drums * But what gives it the merit also renders science blind to much that is essential to our humanity, which are abstract and non-material ... beauty, ethics, morals, truth, compassion, happiness, love, etc.
Albert Einstein expressed is eloquently ... as have several others. There has been much since science overwhelmed us. But everytime it has served to delete a part or measure of our humanity, mankind has struck a blow at its own foot ! On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:46:04 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote: > > I wasn't clear. I was thinking about new ideas and inventions which > made older ideas and inventions obsolete or mere stepping stones to a > greater truth. Science seems more open to changes and advances for the > most part though Darwin had a struggle but that was because he stepped > into religious territory which might mean that we are more open to > change when it does not involve emotions and beliefs versus > demonstrable facts. > > On Oct 9, 9:08 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > It will still be more clever than the rest ! > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:04:27 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote: > > > > > Until the next cleverest man/woman comes along! :-) > > > > > On Oct 8, 5:56 pm, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > " Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for > specific > > > > acts or purposes ... " > > > > > > If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man, > > > > > > it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been programmed > > > > > > but it would be more clever than every other man on the planet ! > > > > > > On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote: > > > > > > > And certain ants have also figured out how to enter the honey bee > as a > > > > > parasite which has an ominous impact on pollination. Species pick > up > > > > > their behaviors from their groups- some are more dedicated- > patterns > > > > > can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating worth with money/ > > > > > salary?//Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed > to > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for > specific > > > > > acts or purposes but still short of general intelligence, insight > and > > > > > adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily "lousey" except the final > > > > > chapter is death and certain goals were not realized or possible. > Hard > > > > > work/age does not create arthritis- that is a myth. The 12 year > old > > > > > across the street has arthritis and started some exercise for > > > > > violinists. > > > > > > > On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > The archaeological evidence is that such things as the move to > > > farming > > > > > > from hunter-gathering did not improve the human lot for those > who > > > > > > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the work). The obvious > > > issue > > > > > > for present society concerns the dubious status of our work and > > > life- > > > > > > style ideologies. Slave-making ants kill the adults in their > host > > > > > > ants and steal the 'eggs' in order to steal the work as they > become > > > > > > adult by making them raise their own brood. Even in enslaved > ant > > > > > > consciousness something inspires 'rebellion' and 'duty' to the > wider > > > > > > collective. Humans have a sad history of enslavement and debt > > > > > > peonage. > > > > > > Undergraduates can be heard every year bemoaning salaries on > offer > > > for > > > > > > 'all their hard work' - few of them have done any! The Chinese > > > refer > > > > > > to their graduates who don't get the good jobs as 'Ant People'. > > > Some > > > > > > of my old colleagues inside technological manufacturing used to > note > > > > > > the need for workers was disappearing faster than most knew as > work > > > > > > and skill is embodied in technology (an old marxist theme). My > own > > > > > > feeling is that we have killed off much valuable stuff that > James > > > > > > suggests through the ejukation system - falsely imagining > subjects > > > > > > designed in our dubious past teach anything other than control > > > fraud. > > > > > > Even medical training involves a lot of unnecessary rot. > > > > > > Some of us think machines are better at 'thinking' than most > people > > > > > > (soon Gabby will be made redundant from her Gad-fly role once I > > > clear > > > > > > up a few teething problems with the bots!), partly because no > human > > > > > > can encompass the data loads. Allan and I share problems with > our > > > > > > 'flash memory' - buzz, ping, PTSD etc. - (it's my time of year > to > > > have > > > > > > flash-backs to Northern Ireland) - getting old is lousy - soon > my > > > > > > friendly solid state world will move from Enlightenment to > > > > > > Entanglement as I stroke Schrodinger's cat. We have now done > this > > > > > > experimentally with some tinkering. > > > > > > Memory is increasingly viewed as about our ability to predict > the > > > > > > future - that is its purpose is for this. We find it in > non-human > > > > > > life-forms too. This is related to a general science-view of > why a > > > > > > system would invest in the resources to have memory at all. > I'll > > > > > > leave this babble with the question 'where do the Spartacus ants > > > > > > raised by the slavers get the memories that inspire rebellion'? > > > > > > > > On 6 Oct, 19:50, James <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From another perspective one might like to appreciate the > role > > > (or a > > > > > > > role) of life as within an integral spectrum. If there is a > world > > > with > > > > > > > meaning beyond our conceptions it would present a challenge to > > > > > undertake > > > > > > > exploration and discovery. Regardless of conception or outside > our > > > > > > > capacity we might be bound by greater rules in nature. These > are > > > > > > > questions I think that arise when the suspicion of being led > > > becomes > > > > > too > > > > > > > great to ignore, fear has a corrupting influence on that as > does > > > the > > > > > > > diverse symbols at our disposal provided by language, > corrupting > > > as in > > > > > > > coloring and distorting. But the tools of identity, shared > > > language > > > > > and > > > > > > > meanings can facilitate discovery. Internal motives can > present a > > > > > > > struggle for a clear picture, and yet without them what > impetus > > > would > > > > > > > there be? Context is amazingly significant, the when and > where, > > > I've > > > > > > > found. That is in part a few features of what I am exploring > > > > > currently, > > > > > > > among the jumble. This can be intimate stuff, thanks for > sharing > > > what > > > > > > > you gather. :) > > > > > > > > > On 10/5/2012 4:25 AM, Allan H wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Lately I have been trying to get out of this physical > concept of > > > > > things > > > > > > > > and look at them from a souls to return to soul with the > body as > > > > > nothing > > > > > > > > more than a means of existing in this physical world. this > > > seems to > > > > > be > > > > > > > > changing the perspective on what is conceived as reality. > > > > > > > > Allan > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:50 AM, James <[email protected] > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > We may be on the same page Gabby, my imagined future > > > > > possibilities > > > > > > > > are still clouded by unknowns (to me). That I consider a > > > > > consequence > > > > > > > > of mental bondage to current circumstances, and left > > > unchecked > > > > > can > > > > > > > > be demoralizing to creative intelligence. As far as I > can > > > tell > > > > > we > > > > > > > > are meant to invent solutions to challenges, and hold on > as > > > long > > > > > as > > > > > > > > possible until the opportunity arises. My opinion is > that we > > > can > > > > > do > > > > > > > > little to force change but as facilitators we can pursue > > > > > strategic > > > > > > > > challenges that will open those opportunities. > > > > > > > > > > If I said that in 10 years the technology should be > > > accessible > > > > > to > > > > > > > > refine garbage, wood or any other fuel into electricity > at > > > 80+ > > > > > > > > conversion efficiency from common household materials in > > > your > > > > > > > > average (modern) garage there is no shortage of > engineers > > > that > > > > > would > > > > > > > > call me a quack. If I said that you could do it today > with > > > > > moderate > > > > > > > > access to materials refining equipment, with a net > generated > > > > > income > > > > > > > > over the winter months, and it could be boosted by > running a > > > > > > > > greenhouse and indoor fishery I would be surely nuts. > SOFC, > > > > > steam > > > > > > > > reforming, plasma reduction, pyrolytic reduction are a > few > > > terms > > > > > for > > > > > > > > that type of nut. > > > > > > > > > > I think we are missing the spirit of engineering in our > > > social > > > > > and > > > > > > > > political dialogue. It could just be me.. we seem to be > able > > > to > > > > > > > > redefine just about any kind of waste into an asset, but > we > > > > > insist > > > > > > > > that primitive human traits are superior and sacrosanct. > > > > > > > > > > Navigating awkward transitions, that is what I think we > are > > > > > doing > > > > > > > > (not necessarily excellently, but making progress). > Still > > > > > passin' > > > > > > > > the buck here, your turn. Sorry for no answer Archy, too > bad > > > > > > > > telepathy isn't an option because the picture is clear > but I > > > > > just > > > > > > > > don't trust the words yet. > > > > > > > > > > On 10/4/2012 5:14 AM, gabbydott wrote: > > > > > > > > > > That's right. Us end consumers of your brilliant > ideas > > > need > > > > > time to > > > > > > > > consume your complex theories in simple practice for > you > > > to > > > > > see > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > we fail to get your idea for you to better educate > and > > > > > motivate > > > > > > > > us. :p > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 4:25 AM, James< > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I was hoping we could evolve sociologically in > step > > > with > > > > > > > > technology, that > > > > > > > > implies an intelligent management infrastructure > > > that > > > > > > > > educates and motivates > > > > > > > > free agents to make contributions to the works > of > > > > > humanity. > > > > > > > > Suitably > > > > > > > > educated in the workings of organisms > (especially > > > how > > > > > they > > > > > > > > relate and > > > > > > > > compare to man), the arts, sciences, elimination > of > > > > > > > > destitution, poverty, > > > > > > > > mental illnesses, the list goes on.. It requires > > > that we > > > > > > > > manage things > > > > > > > > intelligently, learn from mistakes and move > forward. > > > If > > > > > this > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > --
