What, humans do not have ? On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 11:44:41 AM UTC+5:30, Allan Heretic wrote: > > It will always have limitations > Allan > > On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 12:56 AM, Vam <[email protected] <javascript:>> > wrote: > > " Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for specific > > acts or purposes ... " > > > > If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man, > > > > it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been programmed > > > > but it would be more clever than every other man on the planet ! > > > > > > On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote: > >> > >> And certain ants have also figured out how to enter the honey bee as a > >> parasite which has an ominous impact on pollination. Species pick up > >> their behaviors from their groups- some are more dedicated- patterns > >> can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating worth with money/ > >> salary?//Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to > >> be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for specific > >> acts or purposes but still short of general intelligence, insight and > >> adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily "lousey" except the final > >> chapter is death and certain goals were not realized or possible. Hard > >> work/age does not create arthritis- that is a myth. The 12 year old > >> across the street has arthritis and started some exercise for > >> violinists. > >> > >> On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > The archaeological evidence is that such things as the move to > farming > >> > from hunter-gathering did not improve the human lot for those who > >> > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the work). The obvious > issue > >> > for present society concerns the dubious status of our work and life- > >> > style ideologies. Slave-making ants kill the adults in their host > >> > ants and steal the 'eggs' in order to steal the work as they become > >> > adult by making them raise their own brood. Even in enslaved ant > >> > consciousness something inspires 'rebellion' and 'duty' to the wider > >> > collective. Humans have a sad history of enslavement and debt > >> > peonage. > >> > Undergraduates can be heard every year bemoaning salaries on offer > for > >> > 'all their hard work' - few of them have done any! The Chinese refer > >> > to their graduates who don't get the good jobs as 'Ant People'. Some > >> > of my old colleagues inside technological manufacturing used to note > >> > the need for workers was disappearing faster than most knew as work > >> > and skill is embodied in technology (an old marxist theme). My own > >> > feeling is that we have killed off much valuable stuff that James > >> > suggests through the ejukation system - falsely imagining subjects > >> > designed in our dubious past teach anything other than control fraud. > >> > Even medical training involves a lot of unnecessary rot. > >> > Some of us think machines are better at 'thinking' than most people > >> > (soon Gabby will be made redundant from her Gad-fly role once I clear > >> > up a few teething problems with the bots!), partly because no human > >> > can encompass the data loads. Allan and I share problems with our > >> > 'flash memory' - buzz, ping, PTSD etc. - (it's my time of year to > have > >> > flash-backs to Northern Ireland) - getting old is lousy - soon my > >> > friendly solid state world will move from Enlightenment to > >> > Entanglement as I stroke Schrodinger's cat. We have now done this > >> > experimentally with some tinkering. > >> > Memory is increasingly viewed as about our ability to predict the > >> > future - that is its purpose is for this. We find it in non-human > >> > life-forms too. This is related to a general science-view of why a > >> > system would invest in the resources to have memory at all. I'll > >> > leave this babble with the question 'where do the Spartacus ants > >> > raised by the slavers get the memories that inspire rebellion'? > >> > > >> > On 6 Oct, 19:50, James <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > From another perspective one might like to appreciate the role (or > a > >> > > role) of life as within an integral spectrum. If there is a world > with > >> > > meaning beyond our conceptions it would present a challenge to > >> > > undertake > >> > > exploration and discovery. Regardless of conception or outside our > >> > > capacity we might be bound by greater rules in nature. These are > >> > > questions I think that arise when the suspicion of being led > becomes > >> > > too > >> > > great to ignore, fear has a corrupting influence on that as does > the > >> > > diverse symbols at our disposal provided by language, corrupting as > in > >> > > coloring and distorting. But the tools of identity, shared language > >> > > and > >> > > meanings can facilitate discovery. Internal motives can present a > >> > > struggle for a clear picture, and yet without them what impetus > would > >> > > there be? Context is amazingly significant, the when and where, > I've > >> > > found. That is in part a few features of what I am exploring > >> > > currently, > >> > > among the jumble. This can be intimate stuff, thanks for sharing > what > >> > > you gather. :) > >> > > >> > > On 10/5/2012 4:25 AM, Allan H wrote: > >> > > >> > > > Lately I have been trying to get out of this physical concept of > >> > > > things > >> > > > and look at them from a souls to return to soul with the body as > >> > > > nothing > >> > > > more than a means of existing in this physical world. this seems > to > >> > > > be > >> > > > changing the perspective on what is conceived as reality. > >> > > > Allan > >> > > >> > > > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:50 AM, James <[email protected] > >> > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> > > >> > > > We may be on the same page Gabby, my imagined future > >> > > > possibilities > >> > > > are still clouded by unknowns (to me). That I consider a > >> > > > consequence > >> > > > of mental bondage to current circumstances, and left > unchecked > >> > > > can > >> > > > be demoralizing to creative intelligence. As far as I can > tell > >> > > > we > >> > > > are meant to invent solutions to challenges, and hold on as > long > >> > > > as > >> > > > possible until the opportunity arises. My opinion is that we > can > >> > > > do > >> > > > little to force change but as facilitators we can pursue > >> > > > strategic > >> > > > challenges that will open those opportunities. > >> > > >> > > > If I said that in 10 years the technology should be > accessible > >> > > > to > >> > > > refine garbage, wood or any other fuel into electricity at > 80+ > >> > > > conversion efficiency from common household materials in your > >> > > > average (modern) garage there is no shortage of engineers > that > >> > > > would > >> > > > call me a quack. If I said that you could do it today with > >> > > > moderate > >> > > > access to materials refining equipment, with a net generated > >> > > > income > >> > > > over the winter months, and it could be boosted by running a > >> > > > greenhouse and indoor fishery I would be surely nuts. SOFC, > >> > > > steam > >> > > > reforming, plasma reduction, pyrolytic reduction are a few > terms > >> > > > for > >> > > > that type of nut. > >> > > >> > > > I think we are missing the spirit of engineering in our > social > >> > > > and > >> > > > political dialogue. It could just be me.. we seem to be able > to > >> > > > redefine just about any kind of waste into an asset, but we > >> > > > insist > >> > > > that primitive human traits are superior and sacrosanct. > >> > > >> > > > Navigating awkward transitions, that is what I think we are > >> > > > doing > >> > > > (not necessarily excellently, but making progress). Still > >> > > > passin' > >> > > > the buck here, your turn. Sorry for no answer Archy, too bad > >> > > > telepathy isn't an option because the picture is clear but I > >> > > > just > >> > > > don't trust the words yet. > >> > > >> > > > On 10/4/2012 5:14 AM, gabbydott wrote: > >> > > >> > > > That's right. Us end consumers of your brilliant ideas > need > >> > > > time to > >> > > > consume your complex theories in simple practice for you > to > >> > > > see > >> > > > where > >> > > > we fail to get your idea for you to better educate and > >> > > > motivate > >> > > > us. :p > >> > > >> > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 4:25 AM, James<[email protected] > >> > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> > > >> > > > I was hoping we could evolve sociologically in step > with > >> > > > technology, that > >> > > > implies an intelligent management infrastructure that > >> > > > educates and motivates > >> > > > free agents to make contributions to the works of > >> > > > humanity. > >> > > > Suitably > >> > > > educated in the workings of organisms (especially how > >> > > > they > >> > > > relate and > >> > > > compare to man), the arts, sciences, elimination of > >> > > > destitution, poverty, > >> > > > mental illnesses, the list goes on.. It requires that > we > >> > > > manage things > >> > > > intelligently, learn from mistakes and move forward. > If > >> > > > this > >> > > > progress > >> > > > happened in a 100 years I think we would likely > reduce > >> > > > our > >> > > > population to > >> > > > half within the next hundred, there is nothing > logical > >> > > > about > >> > > > reproducing ad > >> > > > infinitum and by then the social costs should be > obvious > >> > > > enough, added to > >> > > > the lack of need as we extend the human lifespan. I > >> > > > think we > >> > > > have a large > >> > > > potential in voluntary acts. > >> > > >> > > > Who is pie in the sky now? :p > >> > > >> > > > On 10/3/2012 5:57 PM, archytas wrote: > >> > > >> > > > If workers aren't needed for work, what will > happen > >> > > > to > >> > > > them? The > >> > > > animal and plant world answer is generally a > 'return > >> > > > to > >> > > > nutrients'. > >> > > >> > > > On 3 Oct, 09:57, Shekila > >> > > > Tieschmaker<[email protected] > >> > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > >> > > > how do you get out this group thing ? > >> > > >> > > > __________________________________ > >> > > > From: James<[email protected] > >> > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > >> > > > To: [email protected] > >> > > > <mailto:[email protected]> > >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 10:26 PM > >> > > > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye thought > experiments > >> > > >> > > > Well it is far worse (or better depending > on > >> > > > who > >> > > > is looking at it), many > >> > > > of the older trades and crafts-people > I've > >> > > > met > >> > > > had an appreciation for > >> > > > seeing their work as an artform. That > would > >> > > > be > >> > > > my robot heaven, working > >> > > > toward a world where we can all pursue > >> > > > meaning > >> > > > and purposeful work without > >> > > > the burden of resource scarcity. What > would > >> > > > it > >> > > > matter that someone wants to > >> > > > be a plumber or architect in a day when > >> > > > those > >> > > > positions are obsolete, if > >> > > > that is pursuing meaning, it would matter > >> > > > little > >> > > > more than > >> > > >> > ... > >> > > >> > read more ยป- Hide quoted text - > >> > > >> > - Show quoted text - > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > -- > ( > ) > |_D Allan > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. > > > I am a Natural Airgunner - > > Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly. >
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