The changes are only in administration,, to me that is not evolutionary type change Allan
Matrix ** th3 beginning light On Dec 7, 2012 11:51 AM, "Lee Douglas" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hahah maybey, maybe. I am though the eternal optimist so I see things > differantly. > > The Anglican church in particular are making some good moves. > > There are though only two things I wish to comment on at this momnet. > > My career in IT support thus far informs me that people do seem to have an > inbuilt resistance to change, and ultimatly the Christian church in > particular but of course all other dogmatic religions need to change or > they risk dieing out. > On Friday, 7 December 2012 10:02:37 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: > >> From what I have seen it does evolve.. it seems mostly in the >> negative directions.. probably because of greed and a desire to >> control rather than spirituality.. there are exceptions but they are >> rare. >> Allan >> >> On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > And in truth Allan religion does evolove, perhaps slowly but evolove it >> > does. >> > >> > On Thursday, 6 December 2012 19:21:35 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >> >> >> >> I think that religion should evolve..just like the rest of the >> >> universe.. when the evolution stops it begins to die.. a good example >> >> of dead beliefs is those our fundamentalist friend is presenting. >> >> Recite the magickal incantation and and every thing will be all >> >> right.. this statement to me is one of a dead faith' >> >> Allan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 6:31 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > Biology is describing a 'co-evolution arms race'. Religious notions >> >> > of the eternal have a lot in common with Popper's 'World 3' and what >> >> > we can regard as 'objective' and 'factual' I'm as sure as you about >> >> > the 'meanness' you often describe and believe the way through it, >> past >> >> > it, whatever - is spiritual - maybe a kind of dawning. >> >> > >> >> > There's a joke in the new Batman film (other 2 hours plus rubbish) - >> >> > when the bad guys raid the stock exchange a trader says there is no >> >> > money there for them to steal - the answer is that there must be - >> >> > otherwise the traders wouldn't be there. I think economics is >> largely >> >> > a fetish designed around libidinal and domination 'needs' - but >> even >> >> > organised religion becomes such. My guess is we need a spiritual >> >> > democracy and finance is set against this forcing us into compliance >> >> > with its control fraud much as many routinely bend their knees in >> >> > religious observance. Science, admittedly as reliably as a double- >> >> > glazing salesman, is suggesting human-biological intelligence is >> >> > already giving way to more machine-substrates that offer quasi- >> >> > immortality and intellect beyond a singularity we can hardly >> imagine. >> >> > In my science fiction dreaming we may discover the alien life on >> Earth >> >> > is actually ours and we have only been used by another, more worthy >> >> > consciousness.. >> >> > >> >> > On 6 Dec, 12:26, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Many things are best guesses.. are the foundation to many things >> along >> >> >> what has been observed .. and there is nothing wrong with that .. >> many >> >> >> ideas have evolved from the instinct for survival .. from that has >> come >> >> >> selfishness which has lead to the excessive uncaring greed we see >> >> >> today... >> >> >> sacrificing the other ant. >> >> >> Allan >> >> >> >> >> >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light >> >> >> On Dec 6, 2012 11:09 AM, "archytas" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Sounds like something Pontius Pilate might have used. >> >> >> >> >> >> > I guess that David Deutsch and constructor theory tries to get >> back >> >> >> > to >> >> >> > reminding science about its root guesses Allan. I take from >> >> >> > 'Spartacus Ants' sacrificing themselves to destroy slaver ants >> that >> >> >> > pre-human biology 'knows' something of survival instinct. >> >> >> >> >> >> > Descartes had it that until we could get to a point of >> re-evaluating >> >> >> > against his radical doubt one had to trust in a beneficent god. >> >> >> > Whilst we can criticize his system, I think anti-religious >> science >> >> >> > misses the beat on issues of how we can live until we know more. >> The >> >> >> > spiritual thus has its place. There is plenty to avoid in its >> history >> >> >> > of control fraud, abuse, sexism and war crimes - but plenty to >> learn >> >> >> > in terms of grace and fellowship. >> >> >> >> >> >> > On 6 Dec, 08:15, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > > it is not for cleaning hands ,, it just gets rid of smell >> that >> >> >> > > you >> >> >> > > can not get rid of no matter how much you wash.. you just wash >> >> >> > > after >> >> >> > > youor hands are clean,, then the smell is gone. >> >> >> > > Allan >> >> >> >> >> >> > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 11:27 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> >> >> >> >> > > wrote: >> >> >> > > > Hm, I have never thought of using a steel soap bar for >> cleaning >> >> >> > > > my >> >> >> > hands. I >> >> >> > > > use it occasionally for my pots and pans. And for the more >> >> >> > > > difficult >> >> >> > dirt on >> >> >> > > > my hands I use a pumice stone or lemon. And more and more >> often I >> >> >> > > > wear >> >> >> > > > gloves or buy frozen and precut garlic and onion. But thanks >> for >> >> >> > > > the >> >> >> > tip. >> >> >> > > > I'm sure that one day I'll make use of it. Why not steel >> instead >> >> >> > > > of >> >> >> > stone, >> >> >> > > > you're right. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 7:54:42 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic >> >> >> > > > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> Well actually Gabby I have this stainless steel soap bar >> used >> >> >> > > >> for >> >> >> > > >> getting rid of ordure off your hands things like onion, >> Garlic >> >> >> > > >> ,, >> >> >> > > >> any strong ordure ,, just tried it on the epoxy smell left >> >> >> > > >> over from >> >> >> > > >> fixing my maxi egg coddler. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> now one of the greatest mysteries of the universe,, how >> does it >> >> >> > > >> work? >> >> >> > > >> Allan >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 6:38 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> >> >> >> >> > > >> wrote: >> >> >> > > >> > The pointlessness of the points' business. Like Lee, I >> find >> >> >> > > >> > the God >> >> >> > > >> > concept >> >> >> > > >> > much more to the point. :) >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> > I don't follow Lee's sequencing model - first spirit, then >> >> >> > > >> > matter - >> >> >> > > >> > though. >> >> >> > > >> > This sounds very man-made to me. ;) >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> > As for the storytelling aspect, yes, the Chronos story is >> much >> >> >> > > >> > more >> >> >> > > >> > vivid >> >> >> > > >> > than the "God created (x) and saw it was good" story. >> That's >> >> >> > > >> > true. >> >> >> > But >> >> >> > > >> > the >> >> >> > > >> > children are less likely to have bad dreams at night. >> Which is >> >> >> > really >> >> >> > > >> > good. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> > Sorry, Allan, I got carried away. What were you talking >> about? >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> > 2012/12/4 Allan H <[email protected]> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> a series of creation is at best a wild guess with no >> >> >> > > >> >> supporting >> >> >> > > >> >> evidence.. >> >> >> > > >> >> Allan >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 4:42 PM, RP Singh < >> [email protected]> >> >> >> > > >> >> wrote: >> >> >> > > >> >> > You can pinpoint the beginning of this universe but not >> >> >> > > >> >> > that of >> >> >> > > >> >> > Creation with its series of universes. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Allan H >> >> >> > > >> >> > <[email protected]> >> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> > > >> >> >> That is not true the beginning can be pretty much >> >> >> > > >> >> >> pinpointed >> >> >> > .. as >> >> >> > > >> >> >> for >> >> >> > > >> >> >> parallel universes that is just a wild guess with >> nothing >> >> >> > > >> >> >> to >> >> >> > support >> >> >> > > >> >> >> the >> >> >> > > >> >> >> other than it sounds good. There is more evidence >> >> >> > > >> >> >> supporting >> >> >> > the >> >> >> > > >> >> >> spiritual >> >> >> > > >> >> >> realm than parallel universes >> >> >> > > >> >> >> Allan >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> On Dec 4, 2012 2:26 PM, "RP Singh" <[email protected]> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> In my view there is no beginning to creation. There >> is >> >> >> > beginning >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> and >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> end to universes There are infinite no. of universes >> in >> >> >> > parallel >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> and >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> continuously many universes are being born and many >> are >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> dying >> >> >> > , >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> but >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> Creation which includes infinite universes in eternal >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> time , >> >> >> > just >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> like >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> the Spirit, is without beginning and without end. The >> >> >> > difference is >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> that the nature of creation is dualistic and the >> Spirit >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> is >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> non-dual. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Lee Douglas < >> >> >> > [email protected]> >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > Hello Andrew, >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > Heh I can envisage many things, but alas many of >> them >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > are not >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > true. >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > I >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > distinguish between two things, matter and spirit. >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > Mattter >> >> >> > is >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > all >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > that >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > is >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > physical, which includes physical 'matter' and also >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > energy. >> >> >> > To >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > me >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > there >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > is >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > no paradox of who created the creator. Before the >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > begining >> >> >> > there >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > was >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > only >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > God, God in spirit, and God created the creation >> out of >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > the >> >> >> > spirt >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > of >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > God. >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > That is all matter comes from spirit. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> > On Friday, 30 November 2012 18:32:43 UTC, andrew >> vecsey >> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> Lee, I can see where all matter has to have an >> energy >> >> >> > component >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> to >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> it >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> because matter is manifested as atoms which have >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> motion in >> >> >> > them. >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> But I >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> could >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> also envision pure motion without involving any >> >> >> > atoms...like a >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> vibration in >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> the fabric of space, >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> On Friday, November 30, 2012 5:53:26 PM UTC+1, Lee >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> Douglas >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> Heh except of course that when it comes right >> down to >> >> >> > it.energy >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> is >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> matter >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> and matter is energy. >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> On Friday, 30 November 2012 11:22:14 UTC, andrew >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>> vecsey >> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> The paradoxical dilemma of who created the >> creator >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> can be >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> circumnavigated by the possibility that the >> original >> >> >> > creator >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> was >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> not >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> matter, >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> but energy. Just like thinking of anything is >> much >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> faster >> >> >> > and >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> much >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> easier >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> than building it, it becomes conceivable that >> energy >> >> >> > patterns >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> could >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> have >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> evolved in a random chance way and finely tuned >> by >> >> >> > selective >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> processes to >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> reach intelligence similar to how most >> scientists >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> believe >> >> >> > that >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> patterns of >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> atoms and molecules evolved to form intelligent >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> life. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> Energy patterns could have evolved to a point >> that >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> they >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> manipulated >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> atoms to desired patterns and forms to code the >> >> >> > information >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> required >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> for >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> life and to allow them to evolve on their own to >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> complex >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> intelligent >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> beings >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> able to wonder at and eventually to solve the >> riddle >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> of >> >> >> > where >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> they >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> came >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> from, where they are going and why they are >> alive. >> >> >> > Meaning and >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> purpose could >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> then be given to our fleeting moment of >> existence. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> On Thursday, November 29, 2012 7:55:05 PM UTC+1, >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> archytas >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> ....... All we have in respect of this is to >> posit >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> creation, begging the question of what created >> that >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> in an >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> infinite >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> regress. .....We might get to an intelligent >> state >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> in >> >> >> > which >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> creation >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> myths are replaced by something more plausible >> and >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> Truth >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> comes >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> closer. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> On 29 Nov, 01:41, RP Singh <[email protected]> >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> wrote: >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > Neil , even after re-transposition how long >> could >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > the >> >> >> > brain >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > live >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > --1000 years , 10000years or maybe as long as >> the >> >> >> > universe >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > ,but >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > ultimately it will die or be destroyed at the >> end >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > - >> >> >> > time of >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > the >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > universe. What survives is the Truth behind >> life >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > and >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > nothing >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > else. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 3:33 AM, archytas >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > <[email protected]> >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > wrote: >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > What survives is the gene - subject to >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > mutations >> >> >> > etc. We >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > are >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > already >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > 'Borg' in the sense of mass assimilation. >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > One's mind >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > could >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > be >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > transposed to another substrate (nearish >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > future) - >> >> >> > our >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > bodies >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > are >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > currently replaced every 5 years or so- and >> the >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > new >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > substrate >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > could >> >> >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > have nanobots that would allow minds to >> >> >> >> >> >> ... >> >> >> >> >> >> read more ยป >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> ( >> >> ) >> >> |_D Allan >> >> >> >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. >> >> >> >> >> >> I am a Natural Airgunner - >> >> >> >> Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly. >> > >> > -- >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> ( >> ) >> |_D Allan >> >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. >> >> >> I am a Natural Airgunner - >> >> Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly. >> > -- > > > > --
