Fine- but I wasn't aware I was trying to convert you. I have a hard enough time converting myself.
On Dec 7, 2:09 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't go with rigs on morality and god-religion. You can get an > article here > -http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwcbs/pdf/Brosnan%20et%20al%20AB%202010.pdf > - on the experience of inequity amongst chimps. Some of them make a > stand on behalf of others when they perceive it. > > On Dec 7, 6:37 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > The old joke runs - 'I was a Catholic (perm to choice) until I reached > > the age of reason'. Most religions have some notion of evolutionary > > adaptation to the modern world in their creed, often at laughable odds > > with practice. I'm in favour of a fresh start - yet how often have we > > heard this from politicians really plotting business-as-usual? Those > > who insist on holy text seem to miss the point that they make such > > text into an idol to worship. As you point out Allan, the 'origin' of > > such text is usually dubious, with the ideas already encoded in other > > history and copied. There is some good stuff, but also evil rot like > > Numbers 31 (and people about who will defend Moses as 'a man of his > > time' - so was Hitler). > > > We have new potentials for transparency these days - but even this is > > contentious - most of us don't think much of eavesdropping and its > > excesses from the Domesday Book through the Checkists, KGB, Gestapo, > > Stasi and various secret services, offshore banking and witch-hunts. > > Religious institutions have played their part in such. Was that a > > police helicopter hovering above our estate a few minutes ago or part > > of the Gabby-Matrix surveillance through which she intends to rule the > > world? Just my way of asking what might be good in transparency, bad > > or just paranoia. I'm quite sure Gabby's drones are much more stocked- > > out with vorsprung dorch tecknik and stealth than the simple > > instruments of our boys in blue! Religion often practices control of > > our inner worlds through such matters as making masturbation a mortal > > sin, weird rites like 'churching' and promises of judgement days and > > after-life. Most who contribute in here seem interested in a more > > rational form of spirituality - the first rational step for me in this > > is imagining what this might be - especially as much presented as > > rational is merely a systemic control fraud in which we are sheep in a > > world in which 'aliens' own the grass. > > > On Dec 6, 7:21 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I think that religion should evolve..just like the rest of the > > > universe.. when the evolution stops it begins to die.. a good example > > > of dead beliefs is those our fundamentalist friend is presenting. > > > Recite the magickal incantation and and every thing will be all > > > right.. this statement to me is one of a dead faith' > > > Allan > > > > On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 6:31 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Biology is describing a 'co-evolution arms race'. Religious notions > > > > of the eternal have a lot in common with Popper's 'World 3' and what > > > > we can regard as 'objective' and 'factual' I'm as sure as you about > > > > the 'meanness' you often describe and believe the way through it, past > > > > it, whatever - is spiritual - maybe a kind of dawning. > > > > > There's a joke in the new Batman film (other 2 hours plus rubbish) - > > > > when the bad guys raid the stock exchange a trader says there is no > > > > money there for them to steal - the answer is that there must be - > > > > otherwise the traders wouldn't be there. I think economics is largely > > > > a fetish designed around libidinal and domination 'needs' - but even > > > > organised religion becomes such. My guess is we need a spiritual > > > > democracy and finance is set against this forcing us into compliance > > > > with its control fraud much as many routinely bend their knees in > > > > religious observance. Science, admittedly as reliably as a double- > > > > glazing salesman, is suggesting human-biological intelligence is > > > > already giving way to more machine-substrates that offer quasi- > > > > immortality and intellect beyond a singularity we can hardly imagine. > > > > In my science fiction dreaming we may discover the alien life on Earth > > > > is actually ours and we have only been used by another, more worthy > > > > consciousness.. > > > > > On 6 Dec, 12:26, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Many things are best guesses.. are the foundation to many things along > > > >> what has been observed .. and there is nothing wrong with that .. many > > > >> ideas have evolved from the instinct for survival .. from that has come > > > >> selfishness which has lead to the excessive uncaring greed we see > > > >> today... > > > >> sacrificing the other ant. > > > >> Allan > > > > >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light > > > >> On Dec 6, 2012 11:09 AM, "archytas" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> > Sounds like something Pontius Pilate might have used. > > > > >> > I guess that David Deutsch and constructor theory tries to get back > > > >> > to > > > >> > reminding science about its root guesses Allan. I take from > > > >> > 'Spartacus Ants' sacrificing themselves to destroy slaver ants that > > > >> > pre-human biology 'knows' something of survival instinct. > > > > >> > Descartes had it that until we could get to a point of re-evaluating > > > >> > against his radical doubt one had to trust in a beneficent god. > > > >> > Whilst we can criticize his system, I think anti-religious science > > > >> > misses the beat on issues of how we can live until we know more. The > > > >> > spiritual thus has its place. There is plenty to avoid in its history > > > >> > of control fraud, abuse, sexism and war crimes - but plenty to learn > > > >> > in terms of grace and fellowship. > > > > >> > On 6 Dec, 08:15, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > it is not for cleaning hands ,, it just gets rid of smell that > > > >> > > you > > > >> > > can not get rid of no matter how much you wash.. you just wash > > > >> > > after > > > >> > > youor hands are clean,, then the smell is gone. > > > >> > > Allan > > > > >> > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 11:27 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> > > > >> > > wrote: > > > >> > > > Hm, I have never thought of using a steel soap bar for cleaning > > > >> > > > my > > > >> > hands. I > > > >> > > > use it occasionally for my pots and pans. And for the more > > > >> > > > difficult > > > >> > dirt on > > > >> > > > my hands I use a pumice stone or lemon. And more and more often > > > >> > > > I wear > > > >> > > > gloves or buy frozen and precut garlic and onion. But thanks for > > > >> > > > the > > > >> > tip. > > > >> > > > I'm sure that one day I'll make use of it. Why not steel instead > > > >> > > > of > > > >> > stone, > > > >> > > > you're right. > > > > >> > > > On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 7:54:42 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic > > > >> > > > wrote: > > > > >> > > >> Well actually Gabby I have this stainless steel soap bar used > > > >> > > >> for > > > >> > > >> getting rid of ordure off your hands things like onion, > > > >> > > >> Garlic ,, > > > >> > > >> any strong ordure ,, just tried it on the epoxy smell left > > > >> > > >> over from > > > >> > > >> fixing my maxi egg coddler. > > > > >> > > >> now one of the greatest mysteries of the universe,, how does > > > >> > > >> it work? > > > >> > > >> Allan > > > > >> > > >> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 6:38 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> > > > >> > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > >> > The pointlessness of the points' business. Like Lee, I find > > > >> > > >> > the God > > > >> > > >> > concept > > > >> > > >> > much more to the point. :) > > > > >> > > >> > I don't follow Lee's sequencing model - first spirit, then > > > >> > > >> > matter - > > > >> > > >> > though. > > > >> > > >> > This sounds very man-made to me. ;) > > > > >> > > >> > As for the storytelling aspect, yes, the Chronos story is > > > >> > > >> > much more > > > >> > > >> > vivid > > > >> > > >> > than the "God created (x) and saw it was good" story. That's > > > >> > > >> > true. > > > >> > But > > > >> > > >> > the > > > >> > > >> > children are less likely to have bad dreams at night. Which is > > > >> > really > > > >> > > >> > good. > > > > >> > > >> > Sorry, Allan, I got carried away. What were you talking about? > > > > >> > > >> > 2012/12/4 Allan H <[email protected]> > > > > >> > > >> >> a series of creation is at best a wild guess with no > > > >> > > >> >> supporting > > > >> > > >> >> evidence.. > > > >> > > >> >> Allan > > > > >> > > >> >> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 4:42 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> > > > >> > > >> >> wrote: > > > >> > > >> >> > You can pinpoint the beginning of this universe but not > > > >> > > >> >> > that of > > > >> > > >> >> > Creation with its series of universes. > > > > >> > > >> >> > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Allan H > > > >> > > >> >> > <[email protected]> > > > >> > wrote: > > > >> > > >> >> >> That is not true the beginning can be pretty much > > > >> > > >> >> >> pinpointed > > > >> > .. as > > > >> > > >> >> >> for > > > >> > > >> >> >> parallel universes that is just a wild guess with nothing > > > >> > > >> >> >> to > > > >> > support > > > >> > > >> >> >> the > > > >> > > >> >> >> other than it sounds good. There is more evidence > > > >> > > >> >> >> supporting > > > >> > the > > > >> > > >> >> >> spiritual > > > >> > > >> >> >> realm than parallel universes > > > >> > > >> >> >> Allan > > > > >> > > >> >> >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light > > > > >> > > >> >> >> On Dec 4, 2012 2:26 PM, "RP Singh" <[email protected]> > > > >> > > >> >> >> wrote: > > > > >> > > >> >> >>> In my view there is no beginning to creation. There is > > > >> > beginning > > > >> > > >> >> >>> and > > > >> > > >> >> >>> end to universes There are infinite no. of universes in > > > >> > parallel > > > >> > > >> >> >>> and > > > >> > > >> >> >>> continuously many universes are being born and many are > > > >> > > >> >> >>> dying > > > >> > , > > > >> > > >> >> >>> but > > > >> > > >> >> >>> Creation which includes infinite universes in eternal > > > >> > > >> >> >>> time , > > > >> > just > > > >> > > >> >> >>> like > > > >> > > >> >> >>> the Spirit, is without beginning and without end. The > > > >> > difference is > > > >> > > >> >> >>> that the nature of creation is dualistic and the Spirit > > > >> > > >> >> >>> is > > > >> > > >> >> >>> non-dual. > > > > >> > > >> >> >>> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Lee Douglas < > > > >> > [email protected]> > > > >> > > >> >> >>> wrote: > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --
