And in truth Allan religion does evolove, perhaps slowly but evolove it does. On Thursday, 6 December 2012 19:21:35 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: > > I think that religion should evolve..just like the rest of the > universe.. when the evolution stops it begins to die.. a good example > of dead beliefs is those our fundamentalist friend is presenting. > Recite the magickal incantation and and every thing will be all > right.. this statement to me is one of a dead faith' > Allan > > > > On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 6:31 PM, archytas <[email protected] <javascript:>> > wrote: > > Biology is describing a 'co-evolution arms race'. Religious notions > > of the eternal have a lot in common with Popper's 'World 3' and what > > we can regard as 'objective' and 'factual' I'm as sure as you about > > the 'meanness' you often describe and believe the way through it, past > > it, whatever - is spiritual - maybe a kind of dawning. > > > > There's a joke in the new Batman film (other 2 hours plus rubbish) - > > when the bad guys raid the stock exchange a trader says there is no > > money there for them to steal - the answer is that there must be - > > otherwise the traders wouldn't be there. I think economics is largely > > a fetish designed around libidinal and domination 'needs' - but even > > organised religion becomes such. My guess is we need a spiritual > > democracy and finance is set against this forcing us into compliance > > with its control fraud much as many routinely bend their knees in > > religious observance. Science, admittedly as reliably as a double- > > glazing salesman, is suggesting human-biological intelligence is > > already giving way to more machine-substrates that offer quasi- > > immortality and intellect beyond a singularity we can hardly imagine. > > In my science fiction dreaming we may discover the alien life on Earth > > is actually ours and we have only been used by another, more worthy > > consciousness.. > > > > On 6 Dec, 12:26, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Many things are best guesses.. are the foundation to many things along > >> what has been observed .. and there is nothing wrong with that .. many > >> ideas have evolved from the instinct for survival .. from that has come > >> selfishness which has lead to the excessive uncaring greed we see > today... > >> sacrificing the other ant. > >> Allan > >> > >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light > >> On Dec 6, 2012 11:09 AM, "archytas" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Sounds like something Pontius Pilate might have used. > >> > >> > I guess that David Deutsch and constructor theory tries to get back > to > >> > reminding science about its root guesses Allan. I take from > >> > 'Spartacus Ants' sacrificing themselves to destroy slaver ants that > >> > pre-human biology 'knows' something of survival instinct. > >> > >> > Descartes had it that until we could get to a point of re-evaluating > >> > against his radical doubt one had to trust in a beneficent god. > >> > Whilst we can criticize his system, I think anti-religious science > >> > misses the beat on issues of how we can live until we know more. The > >> > spiritual thus has its place. There is plenty to avoid in its history > >> > of control fraud, abuse, sexism and war crimes - but plenty to learn > >> > in terms of grace and fellowship. > >> > >> > On 6 Dec, 08:15, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > it is not for cleaning hands ,, it just gets rid of smell that > you > >> > > can not get rid of no matter how much you wash.. you just wash > after > >> > > youor hands are clean,, then the smell is gone. > >> > > Allan > >> > >> > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 11:27 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > > > Hm, I have never thought of using a steel soap bar for cleaning > my > >> > hands. I > >> > > > use it occasionally for my pots and pans. And for the more > difficult > >> > dirt on > >> > > > my hands I use a pumice stone or lemon. And more and more often I > wear > >> > > > gloves or buy frozen and precut garlic and onion. But thanks for > the > >> > tip. > >> > > > I'm sure that one day I'll make use of it. Why not steel instead > of > >> > stone, > >> > > > you're right. > >> > >> > > > On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 7:54:42 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic > wrote: > >> > >> > > >> Well actually Gabby I have this stainless steel soap bar used > for > >> > > >> getting rid of ordure off your hands things like onion, Garlic > ,, > >> > > >> any strong ordure ,, just tried it on the epoxy smell left > over from > >> > > >> fixing my maxi egg coddler. > >> > >> > > >> now one of the greatest mysteries of the universe,, how does it > work? > >> > > >> Allan > >> > >> > > >> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 6:38 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > > >> > The pointlessness of the points' business. Like Lee, I find > the God > >> > > >> > concept > >> > > >> > much more to the point. :) > >> > >> > > >> > I don't follow Lee's sequencing model - first spirit, then > matter - > >> > > >> > though. > >> > > >> > This sounds very man-made to me. ;) > >> > >> > > >> > As for the storytelling aspect, yes, the Chronos story is much > more > >> > > >> > vivid > >> > > >> > than the "God created (x) and saw it was good" story. That's > true. > >> > But > >> > > >> > the > >> > > >> > children are less likely to have bad dreams at night. Which is > >> > really > >> > > >> > good. > >> > >> > > >> > Sorry, Allan, I got carried away. What were you talking about? > >> > >> > > >> > 2012/12/4 Allan H <[email protected]> > >> > >> > > >> >> a series of creation is at best a wild guess with no > supporting > >> > > >> >> evidence.. > >> > > >> >> Allan > >> > >> > > >> >> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 4:42 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > > >> >> > You can pinpoint the beginning of this universe but not > that of > >> > > >> >> > Creation with its series of universes. > >> > >> > > >> >> > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Allan H <[email protected]> > > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> >> >> That is not true the beginning can be pretty much > pinpointed > >> > .. as > >> > > >> >> >> for > >> > > >> >> >> parallel universes that is just a wild guess with nothing > to > >> > support > >> > > >> >> >> the > >> > > >> >> >> other than it sounds good. There is more evidence > supporting > >> > the > >> > > >> >> >> spiritual > >> > > >> >> >> realm than parallel universes > >> > > >> >> >> Allan > >> > >> > > >> >> >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light > >> > >> > > >> >> >> On Dec 4, 2012 2:26 PM, "RP Singh" <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> > > >> >> >>> In my view there is no beginning to creation. There is > >> > beginning > >> > > >> >> >>> and > >> > > >> >> >>> end to universes There are infinite no. of universes in > >> > parallel > >> > > >> >> >>> and > >> > > >> >> >>> continuously many universes are being born and many are > dying > >> > , > >> > > >> >> >>> but > >> > > >> >> >>> Creation which includes infinite universes in eternal > time , > >> > just > >> > > >> >> >>> like > >> > > >> >> >>> the Spirit, is without beginning and without end. The > >> > difference is > >> > > >> >> >>> that the nature of creation is dualistic and the Spirit > is > >> > > >> >> >>> non-dual. > >> > >> > > >> >> >>> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Lee Douglas < > >> > [email protected]> > >> > > >> >> >>> wrote: > >> > > >> >> >>> > Hello Andrew, > >> > >> > > >> >> >>> > Heh I can envisage many things, but alas many of them > are not > >> > > >> >> >>> > true. > >> > > >> >> >>> > I > >> > > >> >> >>> > distinguish between two things, matter and spirit. > Mattter > >> > is > >> > > >> >> >>> > all > >> > > >> >> >>> > that > >> > > >> >> >>> > is > >> > > >> >> >>> > physical, which includes physical 'matter' and also > energy. > >> > To > >> > > >> >> >>> > me > >> > > >> >> >>> > there > >> > > >> >> >>> > is > >> > > >> >> >>> > no paradox of who created the creator. Before the > begining > >> > there > >> > > >> >> >>> > was > >> > > >> >> >>> > only > >> > > >> >> >>> > God, God in spirit, and God created the creation out of > the > >> > spirt > >> > > >> >> >>> > of > >> > > >> >> >>> > God. > >> > > >> >> >>> > That is all matter comes from spirit. > >> > >> > > >> >> >>> > On Friday, 30 November 2012 18:32:43 UTC, andrew vecsey > >> > wrote: > >> > >> > > >> >> >>> >> Lee, I can see where all matter has to have an energy > >> > component > >> > > >> >> >>> >> to > >> > > >> >> >>> >> it > >> > > >> >> >>> >> because matter is manifested as atoms which have > motion in > >> > them. > >> > > >> >> >>> >> But I > >> > > >> >> >>> >> could > >> > > >> >> >>> >> also envision pure motion without involving any > >> > atoms...like a > >> > > >> >> >>> >> vibration in > >> > > >> >> >>> >> the fabric of space, > >> > >> > > >> >> >>> >> On Friday, November 30, 2012 5:53:26 PM UTC+1, Lee > Douglas > >> > > >> >> >>> >> wrote: > >> > >> > > >> >> >>> >>> Heh except of course that when it comes right down to > >> > it.energy > >> > > >> >> >>> >>> is > >> > > >> >> >>> >>> matter > >> > > >> >> >>> >>> and matter is energy. > >> > > >> >> >>> >>> On Friday, 30 November 2012 11:22:14 UTC, andrew > vecsey > >> > wrote: > >> > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> The paradoxical dilemma of who created the creator > can be > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> circumnavigated by the possibility that the original > >> > creator > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> was > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> not > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> matter, > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> but energy. Just like thinking of anything is much > faster > >> > and > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> much > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> easier > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> than building it, it becomes conceivable that energy > >> > patterns > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> could > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> have > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> evolved in a random chance way and finely tuned by > >> > selective > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> processes to > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> reach intelligence similar to how most scientists > believe > >> > that > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> patterns of > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> atoms and molecules evolved to form intelligent > life. > >> > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> Energy patterns could have evolved to a point that > they > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> manipulated > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> atoms to desired patterns and forms to code the > >> > information > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> required > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> for > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> life and to allow them to evolve on their own to > complex > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> intelligent > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> beings > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> able to wonder at and eventually to solve the riddle > of > >> > where > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> they > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> came > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> from, where they are going and why they are alive. > >> > Meaning and > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> purpose could > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> then be given to our fleeting moment of existence. > >> > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> On Thursday, November 29, 2012 7:55:05 PM UTC+1, > archytas > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>> wrote: > >> > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> ....... All we have in respect of this is to posit > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> creation, begging the question of what created that > in an > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> infinite > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> regress. .....We might get to an intelligent state > in > >> > which > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> creation > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> myths are replaced by something more plausible and > Truth > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> comes > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> closer. > >> > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> On 29 Nov, 01:41, RP Singh <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > Neil , even after re-transposition how long could > the > >> > brain > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > live > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > --1000 years , 10000years or maybe as long as the > >> > universe > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > ,but > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > ultimately it will die or be destroyed at the end > - > >> > time of > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > the > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > universe. What survives is the Truth behind life > and > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > nothing > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > else. > >> > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 3:33 AM, archytas > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > <[email protected]> > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > wrote: > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > What survives is the gene - subject to > mutations > >> > etc. We > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > are > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > already > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > 'Borg' in the sense of mass assimilation. > One's mind > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > could > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > be > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > transposed to another substrate (nearish > future) - > >> > our > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > bodies > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > are > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > currently replaced every 5 years or so- and the > new > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > substrate > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > could > >> > > >> >> >>> >>>>> > > have nanobots that would allow minds to > >> > >> ... > >> > >> read more ยป > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > -- > ( > ) > |_D Allan > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. > > > I am a Natural Airgunner - > > Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly. >
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