Science itself can be rather trapped in creation myths. Big Bang is not necessarily a beginning, and nor is that point in our evolution when we were 'something primordial' like a quasi-amoeba. Entanglement may not be something like, say, Molly and I sharing the same air over time - it is a very special creation in laboratory experiments. The language used gets lost in translation from micro to macro.
On Friday, 10 October 2014 09:13:15 UTC+1, archytas wrote: > > Interesting book Molly. Going back to 1923 one can find A N Whitehead's > 'Science and the Modern World' and the process philosophy of misplaced > concreteness and the unwarranted bifurcation of reality. These are old > arguments, though non-the-worse for that. Science, of course, is unlikely > to accept argument based on 'a golden salamander told me' - especially when > we can't look in the hat ourselves. > > On Thursday, 9 October 2014 20:49:07 UTC+1, Molly wrote: >> >> I found a free book online that tackles some of the stuff of Pat's book, >> the biggest stuff, the merging of physics and mysticism. While Pat felt no >> need to reference popular publications and had more of an affinity to the >> bible and Koran, I can appreciate how many of the points made in his book >> are made here also. Thanks Pat, wherever you are. >> >> >> http://cloud2.snappages.com/ed35bc002396c05b8c40ef89a4002f59cb2c27f0/Science-of-the-Sages-20141011-Free-eBook-Edition.pdf >> >> >> On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 8:27:27 PM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote: >>> >>> I keep Hop on Pop; Cat in the Hat; & Green Eggs and Ham on my phone, >>> great for when read too. Ah the hidden escape hatches. >>> So I'm a child in heart.. >>> >>> Allan >>> Living Soul >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Molly <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Wed, 01 Oct 2014 1:15 AM >>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Pat >>> >>> Like saying yes, when the answer is no. But by the time anyone else >>> finds out the answer is no, no action can correct. yes to everyone and >>> everything. Goodbye to the innocence of Green Eggs and Ham. Science rules >>> the day. We can say what we want, it is meaningless (or is it?). By the >>> time you know what you are looking at, if you ever do, your innocence will >>> be gone with the moment. All you can do is move on to the next Dr. Seuss >>> book, if you still have the heart. >>> >>> On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 5:37:15 PM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>> >>>> (",) >>>> >>>> Allan >>>> Living Soul >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Molly <[email protected]> >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Sent: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 10:36 PM >>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Pat >>>> >>>> >>>> <https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-D8HGxv7UeOM/VCsUMlFID5I/AAAAAAAAABk/JMVQKQl73bw/s1600/Sam%2BI%2Bam.jpg> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 4:30:00 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Maybe, in some ways, we must suffer madness to retain sanity? From >>>>> nearly 100 years ago. >>>>> >>>>> Desiderata >>>>> Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there >>>>> may be in silence. >>>>> As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. >>>>> Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the >>>>> dull and ignorant; they too have their story. >>>>> Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. >>>>> If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; >>>>> for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. >>>>> >>>>> Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. >>>>> Keep interested in your career, however humble; it is a real >>>>> possession in the changing fortunes of time. >>>>> Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of >>>>> trickery. >>>>> But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons >>>>> strive for high ideals; >>>>> and everywhere life is full of heroism. >>>>> >>>>> Be yourself. >>>>> Especially, do not feign affection. >>>>> Neither be critical about love; for in the face of all aridity and >>>>> disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass. >>>>> >>>>> Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the >>>>> things of youth. >>>>> Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do >>>>> not distress yourself with imaginings. >>>>> Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome >>>>> discipline, be gentle with yourself. >>>>> >>>>> You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; >>>>> you have a right to be here. >>>>> And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is >>>>> unfolding as it should. >>>>> >>>>> Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, >>>>> and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of >>>>> life keep peace with your soul. >>>>> With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful >>>>> world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. >>>>> >>>>> © Max Ehrmann 1927 >>>>> On Tuesday, 30 September 2014 20:03:14 UTC+1, archytas wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not sure what a real valid person isn't Allan. I miss the >>>>>> entertainment. The science was Kaliber Yawn, but then I'm a 'cold dark' >>>>>> man on physics and anti-traditionalist on god. I hope you and I would >>>>>> not >>>>>> sit about pondering naked gymnastics for the young and virtue ethics >>>>>> like >>>>>> participants in The Republic, whilst telling slaves to fetch another >>>>>> glass >>>>>> of wine or herbal tea or a 'flute girl'. We managed to ban Chazwin, a >>>>>> fine >>>>>> chap suffering from cancer at the time. Manners and politesse can be >>>>>> very >>>>>> nasty. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, 30 September 2014 19:14:21 UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As friend outside ME I enjoyed his private messages and liked him. >>>>>>> He was a real valid person. Miss his input. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Allan >>>>>>> A Living Soul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: archytas <[email protected]> >>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>> Sent: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 7:51 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Pat >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just about my view Gabby, to be honest. What would we be saying if >>>>>>> we had known Paul Gauguin - see >>>>>>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/8011066/Is-it-wrong-to-admire-Paul-Gauguins-art.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - not that I connect any such lifehistory with Pat. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, 29 September 2014 22:15:16 UTC+1, Gabby wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I agree with your analysis, RP. I share Pat's love for patterns and >>>>>>>> have experienced some of the side effects also. There are times and >>>>>>>> situations when this shown behaviour is normal. So these behavioural >>>>>>>> patterns don't really scare me. What got me really upset was the role >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> "publisher", a windy bubble creationist. The website was so crap, I >>>>>>>> understood I would not send one penny to this dubious enterprise and >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> they would not do anything to promote the book. I hope Pat has got >>>>>>>> more in >>>>>>>> sync with real people again. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Am Montag, 29. September 2014 02:47:55 UTC+2 schrieb RP Singh: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have not diagnosed someone's character , rather I have presented >>>>>>>>> my estimate about his behaviour pattern. It is not a judgement but an >>>>>>>>> analysis of abnormal behaviour. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 5:46 AM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We are here to discuss ideas, RP, not the members characters. >>>>>>>>>> Attack on a members character, even if your opinion is in the form >>>>>>>>>> of a >>>>>>>>>> diagnosis, is clearly outlawed in the guidelines. Pat shared many >>>>>>>>>> interesting ideas in this group, and was appreciated by many of us. >>>>>>>>>> Where >>>>>>>>>> I come from, we call an attack on someones character who is not >>>>>>>>>> present >>>>>>>>>> backstabbing, and is, by any measure, as Mando points out, a breach >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> trust. Whether currently participating or not, we are not here to >>>>>>>>>> comment >>>>>>>>>> on people's character. If you have any comments on string theory, >>>>>>>>>> or any >>>>>>>>>> other facet of Pat's book, I suggest you move on to discussing his >>>>>>>>>> ideas >>>>>>>>>> and away from diagnosing his or anyone else's character. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:22:49 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have diagnosed an abnormal behaviour and do not attempt to >>>>>>>>>>> make personality assessments of normal people. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:43 AM, Richard Blay <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So RP, Mr. psychologist, what are you going to write about >>>>>>>>>>>> Gabby if she goes out of communication based on her postings? ;) >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 28, 2014 10:45 PM, "Molly" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I reject your opinion and find it uninformed. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 28, 2014 5:56:02 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pat was a classical case of paranoid schizophrenia as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> revealed through his posts. In mental disorders , unlike >>>>>>>>>>>>>> physiological >>>>>>>>>>>>>> problems it is not absolutely necessary that you personally talk >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> affected person. His disease can be definitely gleaned from his >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they are clear enough , which in Pats case were quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>> transparent. As for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the sub-types of schizophrenia , paranoid schizophrenia is quite >>>>>>>>>>>>>> unique >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it involves paranoid thinking as well. No disrespect is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>> towards Pat , a disease is a disease whether it is physical or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mental. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Besides , for years I knew about Pat's ailment but never voiced >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it out of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> consideration for his feelings , but now that for years he has >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gone out of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> communication I thought there was no harm in sharing my thoughts >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 1:13 AM, Molly <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He was a very bright guy who offered is knowledge and ideas >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly, and, as you say Allan, without judgement and always >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> respect. I will spare you my opinion of a psychologist who, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowing someone personally and having never seen them >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> professionally, would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> publicly declare a diagnosis of a person based on Internet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group posts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 28, 2014 3:37:17 PM UTC-4, Allan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heretic wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a copy also, lol. Took me a while to get it even >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though I paid for it as soon as I found out it was being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> published. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read it . His book has given me a lot to think about. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of all Pat was friend, and a legitimate contributing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> member of this group. He was here when I arrived accepting me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without judgment. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which leaves you RP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Allan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Living Soul >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Molly <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 9:09 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Pat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did buy a copy. Whatever my opinion of the book, I would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never deem it a failure. IMHO, that is up to the author, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account his own goals and objectives for the book and its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> publication. If #books sold is anyone's criterion, they will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reference the facts. I know that Pat worked for several years >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> book. Publicly declaring it a failure seems, to me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extraordinarily harsh, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially if unsubstantiated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, September 28, 2014 1:57:52 PM UTC-4, Allan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heretic wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did you buy a copy? I did. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Allan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Living Soul >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 7:10 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Pat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pat had very high expectations. He believed that his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'BOOK' would sell in millions and bring about a paradigm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shift. The failure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of his book might have been heartbreaking for him and he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might just not be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the mood to communicate with us. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 9:21 PM, archytas < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sadly no idea. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, 28 September 2014 02:33:28 UTC+1, Allan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heretic wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think of him too, tried contacting his publisher no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> response. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Allan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Living Soul >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Molly <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 11:05 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Pat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't find him anywhere. I also think of him from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time to time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, September 27, 2014 4:45:33 PM UTC-4, Allan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heretic wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Has anyone heard from him he has totally disappeared >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off radar.. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Allan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Living Soul >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/op >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/op >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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