I think when the scientists say that they are unable to define consciousness they are referring to the quality of consciousness and not the consciousness as an entity because neurology being so advanced they may be knowing where the central command of the organism is and as such that is the very place in which consciousness-entity resides.
On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 5:13 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > What else do we pay you for RP, other than to give us total answers? > There is no definition really - we are guessing in this particular game. > It's pretty tricky to define oxygen without the rest of chemistry. It was > phlogiston once. > > Allan's right that if we invent evil genies they have properties. To some > extent we can see the world through the eyes of another if they tell us > about it or do something like Tony's artwork. Language seems to have > some collective consciousness role, even if we are often at odds with it or > bewitched by it. Hard to see language arising privately > > Given how much we copy others, is consciousness ever our own? I can't > really see that the same dull academic book or fiction pot boiler repeated > a thousand times comes from a thousand original subjective minds, > > Sometimes things are defined by what they are not, by what's in or outside > a boundary, in a closed or open system, by what use it is in explanation, > prediction, comforting we lost souls ... > > Telepathy used to be mystical and fail. Now we have radio and its > extensions. I could pay for a beer for Chris to drink 3000 miles away and > understand some of the relish in his description of the experience on > google plus. Somehow I am not that interested in his consciousness when > more direct personal experiment is possible. More interesting, perhaps, is > that taste seems to change in near zero gravity. I hardly know that > because I've eaten there. > > If Tony starts having the same consciousness as me would there be any > point in both of us? Some choose to live without running water in order to > change consciousness. > > What is in consciousness we might not admit to? Is, for instance, > pornography an example of what lurks? Is talk of god just a polite > distraction? > > I don't agree we will never know what consciousness is. We don't know > what we will know in the future. I'm conscious we should start building a > better material world to be conscious in - that might change consciousness > for the better. > > > > On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 9:11:29 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >> >> Allan , when you know so much about such things why don't you give a >> valid definition of the concept "Consciousness". And it was Chris who was >> calling it Mumbo Gumbo and not I. I think that I have given quite an honest >> definition of such a subjective concept as definitions go. It is upto >> others to give a better meaning. If I have started the thread it doesn't >> mean that I alone have to satisfy the group. >> >> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 1:53 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> There are many many levels consciousness. As rock who knows all about >>> the long hard grind after carrying the weight of a glacier on his back. Now >>> he passes his time quietly on my workbench. >>> Unfortunately the dictionary is the common starting point. From where >>> you have to begin building. Chris is right.. your definion is simply not >>> thought out or developed. Mumbo Gumbo does not cut it in an honest >>> discussion. >>> >>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>> Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres >>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 9:00 AM >>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness >>> >>> Allan , it is consciousness. What you are seeing the dictionary for is >>> something completely different. >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 1:15 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> That is a very possible reality.. the problem is the evil genie making >>>> us think we have consciousness would mean the evil woild have to possess >>>> the attributes he is making is think we possess. >>>> It us said more happened in the 1st second of creation than all the >>>> time has passed since. >>>> >>>> Commonly in the belief system the overall consciousness is refered to >>>> as God (or some variation of the name). Due to free will given to all souls >>>> and beings the conciousness is ever expanding like the rest of the ùniverse >>>> demonstrates.. >>>> >>>> As for a common definition one needs to turn to a dictionary. >>>> CONSCIENTIOUSNESS >>>> >>>> noun (uncountable) >>>> • The state or characteristic of being conscientious. >>>> >>>> CONSCIENTIOUS >>>> >>>> adjective >>>> • Thorough, careful, or vigilant; implies a desire to do a task well. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>> Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres >>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: archytas <[email protected]> >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 5:58 AM >>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Consciousness >>>> >>>> We may have no consciousness and an evil genie might be making us think >>>> we have. I find inferred consciousness is easily removed by a heavy blow >>>> with a pick-axe handle. >>>> >>>> On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 3:10:05 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Consciousness in others is inferred and not known or proved so it >>>>> might be that even atoms of elements have consciousness. I cannot even >>>>> prove that you have consciousness it is merely inferred that you have it. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 7:02 AM, Chris Jenkins < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Why do we have to be satisfied with your explanation when we haven't >>>>>> even determined what that means? >>>>>> >>>>>> You began a thread called consciousness, and then won't even take the >>>>>> first steps to try to establish a common ground on the idea? >>>>>> >>>>>> Let's start with the simple question: do you believe plants have >>>>>> consciousness? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:18 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't think you will get an answer to this in the near future and >>>>>>> maybe not in your lifetime , and so we have to be satisfied with my >>>>>>> explanation -- it is an attribute of life , a real one , and not >>>>>>> jumbled up. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 6:42 AM, Chris Jenkins < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Moogle-de-poogledy is an attribute of life and needs no further >>>>>>>> description. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Do you see why that's not an effective line of conversation? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What is conciousness? Do plants have it? Does it require sentience? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:10 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Consciousness is an attribute of life and needs no further >>>>>>>>> description. Without consciousness there would have been no life , >>>>>>>>> and so >>>>>>>>> it is life itself. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 6:37 AM, Chris Jenkins < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Just so we're all on the same page, can you go ahead and define >>>>>>>>>> exactly what a consciousness is? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 8:05 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Suppose there had been no consciousness and the entire world had >>>>>>>>>>> been there but all unconscious , what would be the Truth? Just >>>>>>>>>>> death , >>>>>>>>>>> nothing else. Consciousness is what makes life , a proof that there >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> something which exists , Existence itself and not death. Look at >>>>>>>>>>> the stars >>>>>>>>>>> , the solar system , if it had self-direction where would we be? It >>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>>>> obeys laws and that is the reason for order in the universe and not >>>>>>>>>>> chaos. >>>>>>>>>>> What would humanity have been if we were not bound by our nature , >>>>>>>>>>> no laws >>>>>>>>>>> of biology , psychology , etc. , no predictability , no comfort >>>>>>>>>>> that we >>>>>>>>>>> would return to our homes at night ,no assurance that we would >>>>>>>>>>> return home >>>>>>>>>>> from work . Unpredictability is still there but it is minor , >>>>>>>>>>> mostly there >>>>>>>>>>> is satisfaction and assurance of well-being. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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