Correction assumes I was wrong before. I wasn't. The devil is in the details. But it would take far too long to explain and I'm interested in the bigger picture.
Am Mittwoch, 11. Februar 2015 schrieb Chris Jenkins : > No justifications, dear Gabs. Just a correction. :) > > > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 4:58 PM, gabbydott <[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > >> Oh yes, What, who, whose questions are being ommitted is quite telling. >> There is a geometry in that too, of course. I explicitly said no blaming, >> and you come up with justifications?! For what? Yes, we were close to my >> wish come true, but then Facil appeared and it all started again. There is >> nothing I can do about it from where I sit. ;) >> >> Am Mittwoch, 11. Februar 2015 schrieb Chris Jenkins : >> >>> Oh, how quickly time muddles the recollection...perhaps you should go >>> back and review some of those posts before I left. It was for the same >>> reason Craig did, and had nothing to do with the legacy nature of an email >>> list. I was overloaded between job and family, and simply couldn't keep up >>> with the volume of communication (a strike against your assertion I left >>> because I knew it was an outdated format). There were hundreds of posts, >>> some of them quite combative (*ahem*), and any action taken by mods to keep >>> the list adhering to its original intent was met with a hearty round of >>> "fuck you matey". It was draining. >>> >>> My goodbye: >>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/minds-eye/by$20chris/minds-eye/ZQB5vLJ2rSI/0GbRK-9nz-AJ >>> >>> Note that I put it to the group to decide, specifically because there >>> was no other way to effectively determine any sort of self governance, and >>> I didn't feel I had the right to make an arbitrary decision without input. >>> >>> You promptly attacked every facet of my decision (and I expected no >>> less). There was a long and robust conversation with a ton of familiar >>> faces (most missing now). Your first vote was for a natural death. Have you >>> gotten your wish? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 12:37 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Over a thousand members, 5 actually post? >>>> >>>> >>>> This question coming from you? YOU! Oh come on, Chrissy baby! This is >>>> an outdated format here that doesn't generate much traffic anymore. You >>>> know that, that`s your job to know that, that`s why you quit the mod job >>>> here! No one is blaming you for that but don´t play the innocent here! You >>>> introduced no transparent polling as to who should become your successor, >>>> but lay down your crown to the one who threw his hat in the ring, a method >>>> acceptable for the queen also. Nice try, dear. >>>> >>>> 2015-02-11 17:34 GMT+01:00 Chris Jenkins <[email protected]>: >>>> >>>>> Yep, he passed the bar some time ago, which is a big part of why he no >>>>> longer had time for these conversations. >>>>> >>>>> He's not alone in that, apparently. Over a thousand members, 5 >>>>> actually post? >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:32 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Such charm as ever Gabby. The term paedophile is not well taken here >>>>>> and may really insult Allan and make him sad. Molly was gone, in the >>>>>> sense >>>>>> of 'gone fishin'. Craig was becoming a lawyer. Hope he made it. He was >>>>>> a >>>>>> Mormon too. >>>>>> >>>>>> It would have been nice to hear updates on Bacon. There were eleven >>>>>> Idols. I expect your superior model incorporates them, or perhaps spits >>>>>> spleen. We can only be sure of never seeing it. >>>>>> >>>>>> We model defeasibly now and use a lot of geometry because a lot of us >>>>>> think in shape. The idea is to make natural language usable by the >>>>>> machine. It has even more difficulty making sense of just what humans >>>>>> say >>>>>> than a pair of paranoid-schizoid positionists. We do consider 'shapes' >>>>>> like the molygon as underliers in our logic and they are instructive. A >>>>>> gabbygon is on the horizon - some no doubt thinking this is the best >>>>>> place. The general theory is called 'bag of words' - we look for shapes >>>>>> in >>>>>> text to give context meaning and identify root metaphors. You probably >>>>>> know how the SNERT stands out like a sore thumb? Maybe accusing old men >>>>>> and their dogs kind of thing? We are trying to find much more routine >>>>>> issues in word use to get at some of Tony has described as dishonesty >>>>>> from >>>>>> 'bag of words' samples taken from the 'marketplace' and other Idol >>>>>> conversations. What the machine establishes from metadata - considering >>>>>> we >>>>>> often haven't - is fascinating because we are not sure what it i doing at >>>>>> all. We have it working on the self-justification of psychopaths at the >>>>>> moment. >>>>>> >>>>>> Gravity obviously collapses on seeing a photograph of me. Thanks for >>>>>> the memory. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 3:13:50 PM UTC, Gabby wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This here is my real lesson. You have been bringing up and pushing >>>>>>> this idol model so many times that I have forgotten what the one was >>>>>>> that I >>>>>>> found better. All that I remember is that it was either located in the >>>>>>> alchemy or in the metaphysical poetry context. It was a perfect four is >>>>>>> all >>>>>>> that is left. It has been overwritten by your four idols. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2015-02-11 1:35 GMT+01:00 archytas <[email protected]>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Francis Bacon classified the intellectual fallacies of his time >>>>>>>> under four headings which he called idols. He distinguished them as >>>>>>>> idols >>>>>>>> of the Tribe, idols of the e, idols of the Marketplace and idols of the >>>>>>>> Theatre. An idol is an image, in this case held in the mind, which >>>>>>>> receives >>>>>>>> veneration but is without substance in itself. Bacon did not regard >>>>>>>> idols >>>>>>>> as symbols, but rather as fixations. They expand a bit like this: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. Tribe >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The example of desiring to see more order in the universe than is >>>>>>>> actually there is one of his examples of an idol of the tribe. He >>>>>>>> thinks >>>>>>>> that we all suffer from that one. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2. Cave >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> An example of an idol of the cave (one of Bacon's examples) is that >>>>>>>> some minds are more drawn to new things and new ideas than they are to >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>> has been around for a long time, while other minds are more drawn to >>>>>>>> "tradition" and "old school" ideas and ways than they are to newness. >>>>>>>> Bacon >>>>>>>> thinks we should become aware what our own tendency is so that we can >>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>> corrections for it. He hopes that by becoming aware of our own mind's >>>>>>>> tendencies toward loving novelty or tradition that we might be able to >>>>>>>> "correct" for them and then hopefully see things more clearly and >>>>>>>> truly. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 3. Marketplace >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We often use words very loosely in common discourse. Bacon sees >>>>>>>> nothing wrong with that when we are just speaking ordinary language >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> friends and family. But, when it comes to trying to describe the world >>>>>>>> accurately and precisely, we should be aware of our tendency to use >>>>>>>> words >>>>>>>> loosely and should try to correct for it. When we are trying to speak >>>>>>>> precisely we should probably not say things like "The mountain is out >>>>>>>> today" (anyone outside of the Puget Sound area wouldn't have a clue >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>> this means); or "The sun went under a cloud" (the sun did not go >>>>>>>> anywhere, >>>>>>>> let along underneath something); or "The sun came up this morning" (the >>>>>>>> earth actually just rotated). None of those sentences is precisely >>>>>>>> true, >>>>>>>> and if we use language imprecisely like this it can sometimes >>>>>>>> accidentally >>>>>>>> lead to huge misapprehensions about the world. Bacon thinks this >>>>>>>> misuse of >>>>>>>> words and language causes far more problems than we realize. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 4. Theatre >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you can think of someone you know who has recently bought into a >>>>>>>> whole new religion or philosophy or psychology, you can probably see >>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>> they have suddenly come to interpret everything in the universe >>>>>>>> according >>>>>>>> to their new world view. That world view has become the new lens >>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>> which they perceive and interpret everything in their world. What Bacon >>>>>>>> says, though, is that we all do this. We all interpret the world >>>>>>>> through >>>>>>>> the lens of our own little world view. It's just easier to see other >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> doing it than it is to see ourselves doing it. Bacon thinks we should >>>>>>>> become aware of how these world views shape and distort our own >>>>>>>> perceptions >>>>>>>> of the world so that we might be able to correct for it a bit. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is old work. My questions are about how we recognise the >>>>>>>> 'second head' as a delusion yet move hardly at all on obvious political >>>>>>>> delusions like economics, votes counting, social care, public >>>>>>>> ignorance and >>>>>>>> the making invisible of many social issues. For me, deep questions on >>>>>>>> self >>>>>>>> are involved. The internet self is unlikely to be, as Tony says, the >>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>> as the 'real'one - but then we have know for much longer than the >>>>>>>> internet >>>>>>>> people don't say the same things in different contexts. In fact the >>>>>>>> man or >>>>>>>> woman in the bar often looks totally different the morning after, let >>>>>>>> alone >>>>>>>> what the politician says in a speech compared with when she is with her >>>>>>>> backroom boys in the spin room. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:17:04 PM UTC, archytas wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At least with my knowledge of delusions I can imagine certain >>>>>>>>> people growing a second head overnight and shooting the wrong spare. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:11:09 PM UTC, archytas wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> That seems to run to form Gabby. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:06:43 PM UTC, Gabby wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Facil picked up your question and gave his answer, I agreed and >>>>>>>>>>> then came Allan barking at Facil and I told Allan to watch his >>>>>>>>>>> tongue or >>>>>>>>>>> leave to his own thread. Only then did you enter the group timeline >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> start your big daddy has come home show. Now tell me what my >>>>>>>>>>> deceitful >>>>>>>>>>> intent was ... Or better, tell me tomorrow, I'm off for today. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Am Dienstag, 10. Februar 2015 schrieb archytas : >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The only people I meet like that tend to be online students >>>>>>>>>>>> Tony. We use Skype video conferencing for a few sessions, so have >>>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>>>>>> seen each other. I'm quieter than people imagine, though none >>>>>>>>>>>> have yet >>>>>>>>>>>> said 'uglier'. I'm very prone to catch whatever bugs go around >>>>>>>>>>>> university >>>>>>>>>>>> environments too, so rather like electronic distance. With >>>>>>>>>>>> colleagues, the >>>>>>>>>>>> situation is we know a lot more about each other than most in >>>>>>>>>>>> online >>>>>>>>>>>> encounters. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> My version has 'confusion' written through it. I say >>>>>>>>>>>> something, Gabby takes it another way, or knows what I intended >>>>>>>>>>>> and chooses >>>>>>>>>>>> another slant for whatever reason. Online, I assume she has a >>>>>>>>>>>> sense of >>>>>>>>>>>> humour and a good turn with words. Deception is not part of this >>>>>>>>>>>> in the >>>>>>>>>>>> first place. Just guesses with less risk than so called reality. >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> suppose the classic online deceiver is the groomer - where the >>>>>>>>>>>> intent is to >>>>>>>>>>>> set up and image and then meet the victim. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 7:54:18 PM UTC, facilitator >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 2:11:33 PM UTC-5, archytas >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The delusion that we are what we project is interesting Tony. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "We claim to be what we project". Your version allows for >>>>>>>>>>>>> reality mine allows for dishonesty. I think most people want to >>>>>>>>>>>>> project a >>>>>>>>>>>>> filtered image of themselves enough so that if we ever meet >>>>>>>>>>>>> people who >>>>>>>>>>>>> we've only conversed with online we become slightly astonished how >>>>>>>>>>>>> different they appear and act in "real life". >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic >>>>>>>>>>>> in the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/2_ICOWzarWY/unsu >>>>>>>>>>>> bscribe. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an >>>>>>>>>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>>>> the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/ >>>>>>>> topic/minds-eye/2_ICOWzarWY/unsubscribe. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/2_ICOWzarWY/unsubscribe. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/2_ICOWzarWY/unsubscribe. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> ""Minds Eye"" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','minds-eye%[email protected]');> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/2_ICOWzarWY/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','minds-eye%[email protected]');> > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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