My pony tail and beard are built for the sea, but I skipper a desk chair, more to my chagrin.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 5:52 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > Who are you calling an old pirate, Blackbeard? And what kind of nancy-boy > pubs where they let woman in other than to be barmaids 'ave ye been > drinkin' in? > > > On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 10:28:39 PM UTC, Chris Jenkins wrote: >> >> Only to an old pirate. >> >> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 5:26 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Has anyone else noticed that a colon and a right parenthesis look like a >>> symbol for a cut-throat razor? :) >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, 11 February 2015 22:19:52 UTC, Chris Jenkins wrote: >>>> >>>> No justifications, dear Gabs. Just a correction. :) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 4:58 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Oh yes, What, who, whose questions are being ommitted is quite >>>>> telling. There is a geometry in that too, of course. I explicitly said no >>>>> blaming, and you come up with justifications?! For what? Yes, we were >>>>> close >>>>> to my wish come true, but then Facil appeared and it all started again. >>>>> There is nothing I can do about it from where I sit. ;) >>>>> >>>>> Am Mittwoch, 11. Februar 2015 schrieb Chris Jenkins : >>>>> >>>>>> Oh, how quickly time muddles the recollection...perhaps you should go >>>>>> back and review some of those posts before I left. It was for the same >>>>>> reason Craig did, and had nothing to do with the legacy nature of an >>>>>> email >>>>>> list. I was overloaded between job and family, and simply couldn't keep >>>>>> up >>>>>> with the volume of communication (a strike against your assertion I left >>>>>> because I knew it was an outdated format). There were hundreds of posts, >>>>>> some of them quite combative (*ahem*), and any action taken by mods to >>>>>> keep >>>>>> the list adhering to its original intent was met with a hearty round of >>>>>> "fuck you matey". It was draining. >>>>>> >>>>>> My goodbye: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/minds- >>>>>> eye/by$20chris/minds-eye/ZQB5vLJ2rSI/0GbRK-9nz-AJ >>>>>> >>>>>> Note that I put it to the group to decide, specifically because there >>>>>> was no other way to effectively determine any sort of self governance, >>>>>> and >>>>>> I didn't feel I had the right to make an arbitrary decision without >>>>>> input. >>>>>> >>>>>> You promptly attacked every facet of my decision (and I expected no >>>>>> less). There was a long and robust conversation with a ton of familiar >>>>>> faces (most missing now). Your first vote was for a natural death. Have >>>>>> you >>>>>> gotten your wish? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 12:37 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Over a thousand members, 5 actually post? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This question coming from you? YOU! Oh come on, Chrissy baby! This >>>>>>> is an outdated format here that doesn't generate much traffic anymore. >>>>>>> You >>>>>>> know that, that`s your job to know that, that`s why you quit the mod job >>>>>>> here! No one is blaming you for that but don´t play the innocent here! >>>>>>> You >>>>>>> introduced no transparent polling as to who should become your >>>>>>> successor, >>>>>>> but lay down your crown to the one who threw his hat in the ring, a >>>>>>> method >>>>>>> acceptable for the queen also. Nice try, dear. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2015-02-11 17:34 GMT+01:00 Chris Jenkins <[email protected] >>>>>>> >: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yep, he passed the bar some time ago, which is a big part of why he >>>>>>>> no longer had time for these conversations. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> He's not alone in that, apparently. Over a thousand members, 5 >>>>>>>> actually post? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:32 AM, archytas <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Such charm as ever Gabby. The term paedophile is not well taken >>>>>>>>> here and may really insult Allan and make him sad. Molly was gone, >>>>>>>>> in the >>>>>>>>> sense of 'gone fishin'. Craig was becoming a lawyer. Hope he made >>>>>>>>> it. He >>>>>>>>> was a Mormon too. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It would have been nice to hear updates on Bacon. There were >>>>>>>>> eleven Idols. I expect your superior model incorporates them, or >>>>>>>>> perhaps >>>>>>>>> spits spleen. We can only be sure of never seeing it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We model defeasibly now and use a lot of geometry because a lot of >>>>>>>>> us think in shape. The idea is to make natural language usable by the >>>>>>>>> machine. It has even more difficulty making sense of just what >>>>>>>>> humans say >>>>>>>>> than a pair of paranoid-schizoid positionists. We do consider >>>>>>>>> 'shapes' >>>>>>>>> like the molygon as underliers in our logic and they are instructive. >>>>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>> gabbygon is on the horizon - some no doubt thinking this is the best >>>>>>>>> place. The general theory is called 'bag of words' - we look for >>>>>>>>> shapes in >>>>>>>>> text to give context meaning and identify root metaphors. You >>>>>>>>> probably >>>>>>>>> know how the SNERT stands out like a sore thumb? Maybe accusing old >>>>>>>>> men >>>>>>>>> and their dogs kind of thing? We are trying to find much more routine >>>>>>>>> issues in word use to get at some of Tony has described as dishonesty >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> 'bag of words' samples taken from the 'marketplace' and other Idol >>>>>>>>> conversations. What the machine establishes from metadata - >>>>>>>>> considering we >>>>>>>>> often haven't - is fascinating because we are not sure what it i >>>>>>>>> doing at >>>>>>>>> all. We have it working on the self-justification of psychopaths at >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> moment. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Gravity obviously collapses on seeing a photograph of me. Thanks >>>>>>>>> for the memory. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 3:13:50 PM UTC, Gabby wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This here is my real lesson. You have been bringing up and >>>>>>>>>> pushing this idol model so many times that I have forgotten what the >>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>> was that I found better. All that I remember is that it was either >>>>>>>>>> located >>>>>>>>>> in the alchemy or in the metaphysical poetry context. It was a >>>>>>>>>> perfect four >>>>>>>>>> is all that is left. It has been overwritten by your four idols. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2015-02-11 1:35 GMT+01:00 archytas <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Francis Bacon classified the intellectual fallacies of his time >>>>>>>>>>> under four headings which he called idols. He distinguished them as >>>>>>>>>>> idols >>>>>>>>>>> of the Tribe, idols of the e, idols of the Marketplace and idols of >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> Theatre. An idol is an image, in this case held in the mind, which >>>>>>>>>>> receives >>>>>>>>>>> veneration but is without substance in itself. Bacon did not regard >>>>>>>>>>> idols >>>>>>>>>>> as symbols, but rather as fixations. They expand a bit like this: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Tribe >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The example of desiring to see more order in the universe than >>>>>>>>>>> is actually there is one of his examples of an idol of the tribe. >>>>>>>>>>> He thinks >>>>>>>>>>> that we all suffer from that one. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2. Cave >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> An example of an idol of the cave (one of Bacon's examples) is >>>>>>>>>>> that some minds are more drawn to new things and new ideas than >>>>>>>>>>> they are to >>>>>>>>>>> what has been around for a long time, while other minds are more >>>>>>>>>>> drawn to >>>>>>>>>>> "tradition" and "old school" ideas and ways than they are to >>>>>>>>>>> newness. Bacon >>>>>>>>>>> thinks we should become aware what our own tendency is so that we >>>>>>>>>>> can make >>>>>>>>>>> corrections for it. He hopes that by becoming aware of our own >>>>>>>>>>> mind's >>>>>>>>>>> tendencies toward loving novelty or tradition that we might be able >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> "correct" for them and then hopefully see things more clearly and >>>>>>>>>>> truly. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 3. Marketplace >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> We often use words very loosely in common discourse. Bacon sees >>>>>>>>>>> nothing wrong with that when we are just speaking ordinary language >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> friends and family. But, when it comes to trying to describe the >>>>>>>>>>> world >>>>>>>>>>> accurately and precisely, we should be aware of our tendency to use >>>>>>>>>>> words >>>>>>>>>>> loosely and should try to correct for it. When we are trying to >>>>>>>>>>> speak >>>>>>>>>>> precisely we should probably not say things like "The mountain is >>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>> today" (anyone outside of the Puget Sound area wouldn't have a clue >>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>> this means); or "The sun went under a cloud" (the sun did not go >>>>>>>>>>> anywhere, >>>>>>>>>>> let along underneath something); or "The sun came up this morning" >>>>>>>>>>> (the >>>>>>>>>>> earth actually just rotated). None of those sentences is precisely >>>>>>>>>>> true, >>>>>>>>>>> and if we use language imprecisely like this it can sometimes >>>>>>>>>>> accidentally >>>>>>>>>>> lead to huge misapprehensions about the world. Bacon thinks this >>>>>>>>>>> misuse of >>>>>>>>>>> words and language causes far more problems than we realize. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 4. Theatre >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you can think of someone you know who has recently bought >>>>>>>>>>> into a whole new religion or philosophy or psychology, you can >>>>>>>>>>> probably see >>>>>>>>>>> how they have suddenly come to interpret everything in the universe >>>>>>>>>>> according to their new world view. That world view has become the >>>>>>>>>>> new lens >>>>>>>>>>> through which they perceive and interpret everything in their >>>>>>>>>>> world. What >>>>>>>>>>> Bacon says, though, is that we all do this. We all interpret the >>>>>>>>>>> world >>>>>>>>>>> through the lens of our own little world view. It's just easier to >>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>>> other people doing it than it is to see ourselves doing it. Bacon >>>>>>>>>>> thinks we >>>>>>>>>>> should become aware of how these world views shape and distort our >>>>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>>>> perceptions of the world so that we might be able to correct for it >>>>>>>>>>> a bit. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This is old work. My questions are about how we recognise the >>>>>>>>>>> 'second head' as a delusion yet move hardly at all on obvious >>>>>>>>>>> political >>>>>>>>>>> delusions like economics, votes counting, social care, public >>>>>>>>>>> ignorance and >>>>>>>>>>> the making invisible of many social issues. For me, deep questions >>>>>>>>>>> on self >>>>>>>>>>> are involved. The internet self is unlikely to be, as Tony says, >>>>>>>>>>> the same >>>>>>>>>>> as the 'real'one - but then we have know for much longer than the >>>>>>>>>>> internet >>>>>>>>>>> people don't say the same things in different contexts. In fact >>>>>>>>>>> the man or >>>>>>>>>>> woman in the bar often looks totally different the morning after, >>>>>>>>>>> let alone >>>>>>>>>>> what the politician says in a speech compared with when she is with >>>>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>>>> backroom boys in the spin room. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:17:04 PM UTC, archytas wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> At least with my knowledge of delusions I can imagine certain >>>>>>>>>>>> people growing a second head overnight and shooting the wrong >>>>>>>>>>>> spare. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:11:09 PM UTC, archytas >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> That seems to run to form Gabby. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:06:43 PM UTC, Gabby wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Facil picked up your question and gave his answer, I agreed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then came Allan barking at Facil and I told Allan to watch >>>>>>>>>>>>>> his tongue >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or leave to his own thread. Only then did you enter the group >>>>>>>>>>>>>> timeline to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> start your big daddy has come home show. Now tell me what my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> deceitful >>>>>>>>>>>>>> intent was ... Or better, tell me tomorrow, I'm off for today. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Dienstag, 10. Februar 2015 schrieb archytas : >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The only people I meet like that tend to be online students >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tony. We use Skype video conferencing for a few sessions, so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have actually >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seen each other. I'm quieter than people imagine, though none >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have yet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said 'uglier'. I'm very prone to catch whatever bugs go around >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> university >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> environments too, so rather like electronic distance. With >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> colleagues, the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> situation is we know a lot more about each other than most in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> online >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> encounters. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My version has 'confusion' written through it. I say >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, Gabby takes it another way, or knows what I intended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and chooses >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another slant for whatever reason. Online, I assume she has a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> humour and a good turn with words. Deception is not part of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first place. Just guesses with less risk than so called >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reality. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suppose the classic online deceiver is the groomer - where the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intent is to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> set up and image and then meet the victim. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 7:54:18 PM UTC, facilitator >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 2:11:33 PM UTC-5, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> archytas wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The delusion that we are what we project is interesting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tony. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "We claim to be what we project". Your version allows for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reality mine allows for dishonesty. I think most people want >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to project a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filtered image of themselves enough so that if we ever meet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we've only conversed with online we become slightly astonished >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different they appear and act in "real life". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> topic in the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/2_ICOWzarWY/unsu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bscribe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic >>>>>>>>>>> in the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/2_ICOWzarWY/unsu >>>>>>>>>>> bscribe. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email >>>>>>>>>>> to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>>>> the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/ >>>>>>>> topic/minds-eye/2_ICOWzarWY/unsubscribe. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>> the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/to >>>>>> pic/minds-eye/2_ICOWzarWY/unsubscribe. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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