I do not think society as a whole will ever change. But i do believe small groups of enlightened people both can and will. They will create communities within society in general. Hidden in plain sight taking advantage of the existing infrastructure.
تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others -----Original Message----- From: archytas <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, 05 Mar 2015 9:27 PM Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: We are going backwards. The Lele used to provide a village woman for the use of unmarried men. In many sub-Saharan territories most of the work was done by women, with men controlling them through marriage, in order to produce workers and progeny. In Japan, the heroes of some comics are rapists. One in five women in the US is likely to be raped in her lifetime - http://www.rccmsc.org/resources/get-the-facts.aspx - the figures seem lower in the UK - http://www.rapecrisis.org.uk/Statistics2.php - these figures seem higher than I would expect from experience. The numbers make me sick. We should get some proper research done. On Thursday, 5 March 2015 18:51:01 UTC, Molly wrote: > > Right there. thanks for making my point for me. both of you. > > On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 1:23:28 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote: >> >> Women often were blocks to the emancipation movement. Pankhurst herself >> was appalled at the sexual abuse revealed as people registered births, >> fathers often the father of a daughter's child and so on (she worked as a >> registrar). One of the ig issues in this stuff concerns not conflating >> cultural relativism and a more absolute form of human rights, It is >> interesting this documentary was banned and it is typical of the way we >> push the unacceptable away, a Freudian concept RP must be aware of. >> Violence is rooted much deeper in our societies than we will admit.to. >> >> >> On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 4:40:13 PM UTC, Molly wrote: >>> >>> Maybe they are too busy fighting among themselves and sleeping too. >>> >>> On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 11:33:50 AM UTC-5, facilitator wrote: >>>> >>>> What the hell does the US having a woman president have to do with >>>> rape? We haven't had an oriental president either. Hell, we haven't even >>>> had a black president yet. >>>> >>>> On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 10:03:56 AM UTC-5, RP Singh wrote: >>>>> >>>>> There has been rampant dowry harassment of many young brides by the >>>>> in-laws, but the greatest harassment has mostly been done by the >>>>> mother-in-law. Women are actually the women's greatest enemies. America >>>>> has >>>>> 50% women population and in their long history they are yet to have a >>>>> woman >>>>> president. Are women actually sleeping or maybe somewhere they think that >>>>> men would make better leaders. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 7:56 PM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> A very sad case indeed, Pol. There is much there to invoke outrage. >>>>>> And RP's crack about women being the worst enemy for women has the tone >>>>>> of >>>>>> these rapists flinging insults about the victim. But I cannot say I >>>>>> agree >>>>>> that the film looks to be someone preying on the victim to get their own >>>>>> 5 >>>>>> minutes of fame. Looks as if the film makers took a tough stand to try >>>>>> to >>>>>> bring attention to the problem. And the problem looks to be, at least in >>>>>> part, that blaming the victim is so accepted in all parts of culture >>>>>> that >>>>>> we don't even recognize it when we see it, or sometimes say it. I can >>>>>> feel >>>>>> deep compassion for the mother when she says that she can't be hurt >>>>>> worse >>>>>> by their words after her daughter died in her arms after their violent >>>>>> actions. How do we bring attention to the atrocity of cultural >>>>>> acceptance >>>>>> of not only this kind of violence but the gender inequity that >>>>>> perpetuates >>>>>> it? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 8:59:06 AM UTC-5, pol.science kid wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://indianexpress.com/article/cities/delhi/i-wish- >>>>>>> judiciary-govt-did-more-than-just-ban-a-film/ >>>>>>> On Mar 5, 2015 4:44 PM, "RP Singh" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That documentary has been banned and I don't read banned stuff >>>>>>>> because it is mostly prejudiced and sensational. The maker is simply >>>>>>>> creating a storm to make money. When that incident happened everyone >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> shocked, and by raising that subject again by talking to a perpetrator >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the crime what did the producer want? If he was really concerned he >>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>> have talked to people on the road and not a savage who had no concern >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> others but only blaming the victim. Everyone needs protection, I as >>>>>>>> well. >>>>>>>> It is society through the government that provides protection against >>>>>>>> criminals and scoundrels. There are other type of savages who loot all >>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>> money and put you on the road, there are savages in uniform who >>>>>>>> implicate >>>>>>>> you in criminal cases, everyone needs protection and you are not >>>>>>>> unique in >>>>>>>> that. You can make India a better place to live in, just why don't you >>>>>>>> try >>>>>>>> to do that? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 4:19 PM, polly skid <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Don't use animals and rapists synonymously. What is your point >>>>>>>>> when you say women in other places are vulnerable? Its quite >>>>>>>>> obvious.. We >>>>>>>>> all live in this world and are aware of what happens in other places >>>>>>>>> too.. >>>>>>>>> The point of reference is the documentary and Delhi. Maybe extending >>>>>>>>> it to >>>>>>>>> other parts of India. Nobody ever said only Indian men rape. I don't >>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>> who you are defending 'india' against... When you say 'you are not >>>>>>>>> unique >>>>>>>>> 'in demanding protection.. Are you talking to me(when did i demand >>>>>>>>> protection;when i said delhi is unsafe??) , or do you mean all >>>>>>>>> womankind >>>>>>>>> when you say 'you are not unique in demanding protection'? As far as >>>>>>>>> i >>>>>>>>> gather Udwin is saying through the documentary that most men in >>>>>>>>> india are >>>>>>>>> not raised to respect women as equals and that's a contributing >>>>>>>>> factor in >>>>>>>>> increased rapes, hardly about controlling some random 'savages' out >>>>>>>>> to get >>>>>>>>> women and children. Maybe you should actually watch the documentary. >>>>>>>>> Might >>>>>>>>> help bring some perspective. >>>>>>>>> On Mar 5, 2015 4:03 PM, "RP Singh" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Such instances happen everywhere in the world. There are streets >>>>>>>>>> in New York where you cannot move about. Girls are, and yes even >>>>>>>>>> children >>>>>>>>>> are forcefully put into prostitution and are drugged and made to do >>>>>>>>>> things >>>>>>>>>> which go against civilization. Are they being done by Indians only? >>>>>>>>>> Everyone needs protection from the animals and savages among us, and >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> are not unique in that. Western countries might be better in some >>>>>>>>>> sense, >>>>>>>>>> but we are in others. If you are talking about Delhi, you are doing >>>>>>>>>> so as >>>>>>>>>> if it was crawling with monsters, but there are monsters everywhere. >>>>>>>>>> In >>>>>>>>>> developed countries they have better systems of control, and as we >>>>>>>>>> progress >>>>>>>>>> we will learn to control the animals here as well. >>>>>>>>>> I have just read Archytas and he has given a good explanation. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 3:14 PM, polly skid <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Leave Delhi.. Remember the UP village case where two teenage >>>>>>>>>>> sisters were raped and hanged from a tree? Already forgotten by >>>>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>>> people. >>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 5, 2015 3:12 PM, "polly skid" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Why should i need protection if i wear western attire..?and by >>>>>>>>>>>> that logic wearing 'indian attire' doesnt call for >>>>>>>>>>>> 'protection'..if you >>>>>>>>>>>> wear it ? Comparing India with Taliban aint a very great idea. We >>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> moving forward(in time) because thats what people do/countries >>>>>>>>>>>> do.. Plus >>>>>>>>>>>> who is criticizing 'india' dude...?? I dont get the point of >>>>>>>>>>>> getting masses >>>>>>>>>>>> and democracy. It's a fact that if youre a woman in Delhi youre >>>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>>>> unsafe. One cant even call any cab or board any bus.. The problems >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> course go much further than anything that is written here. Arguing >>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>> the 'greatness' of india's heritage, democracy , culture doesnt do >>>>>>>>>>>> shit.... >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 5, 2015 2:35 PM, "RP Singh" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are wearing western attire and moving about the streets >>>>>>>>>>>>> of Delhi who protects you, it is the people of India. India is a >>>>>>>>>>>>> democracy >>>>>>>>>>>>> and the government can function only if they are chosen by the >>>>>>>>>>>>> people. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever politicians might be they know that they are answerable >>>>>>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> people and are ruling with peoples' mandate. Day by day we are >>>>>>>>>>>>> moving >>>>>>>>>>>>> forward, are we doing so by subjugating the masses? Our former >>>>>>>>>>>>> Prime >>>>>>>>>>>>> Minister Indira Gandhi tried to play the despot and lost the next >>>>>>>>>>>>> election, >>>>>>>>>>>>> she learned the lesson and corrected herself. Polly Taliban does >>>>>>>>>>>>> not exist >>>>>>>>>>>>> here , some people are trying to do that in the name of culture >>>>>>>>>>>>> and are >>>>>>>>>>>>> unsuccessful. Do the majority in India want fundamentalism, >>>>>>>>>>>>> surely not! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 1:12 PM, polly skid <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry.. I don't mean the word tolerant.. what are 'they' >>>>>>>>>>>>>> supposed to be 'tolerant' of anyways.. That females exist and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> move about by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> will?? ... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 5, 2015 12:52 PM, "polly skid" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to say this RP.. But majority of people are NOT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tolerant... An hour into the streets of most areas of Delhi or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts of north india would make it clear... Maybe you stay in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 5, 2015 11:41 AM, "'facilitator' via "Minds Eye < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's encouraging RP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 12:30:56 AM UTC-5, RP Singh >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is not the majority view, but that of deranged, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> uneducated and fundamentalists. Such people are always doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something evil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the name of culture, what do such people know of culture. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have a rich >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heritage of giving respect to women if we look in not so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ancient India, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when muslim raiders came from the west and stole women a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little purdah >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system developed as a defence, and in the course of time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evils in society >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also developed, but by the good works done by social >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reformers from amongst >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us much of our evil treatment of our women was abolished. It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nature of humans to rationalize their venomous intentions by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> putting the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blame on the victim. The majority of our people are not like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tolerant and free and that is the reason that we are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> progressing greatly. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 12:58 AM, archytas < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> China? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 7:13:51 PM UTC, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> facilitator wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Article: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Blaming women for rape is what hundreds of millions of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> men here are taught to believe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And the code for women in this country is simple: Dress >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modestly, don't go out at night, don't go to bars and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clubs, don't go out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alone. If you break the code, you will be blamed for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consequences. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When one of the four men sentenced to death for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high-profile gang rape of the woman in 2012 was quoted in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new documentary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as saying "a girl is far more responsible for rape than a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boy," he was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> repeating something community and religious leaders in this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nation of 1.2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> billion routinely say. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/op >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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