I am RP actually I am a Montanan contrary to popular opinion there are only 49 states in the USA ,,, Montana is not one of them.
تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others -----Original Message----- From: RP Singh <[email protected]> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 9:56 AM Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Rule By Machine Allan, I thought you were American. On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 12:01 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: The Hindu beliefs say you live for ever.. as does my Russian soul. تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others -----Original Message----- From: RP Singh <[email protected]> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 4:55 AM Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Rule By Machine The idea of death just drives the shit out of us, the survival instinct is that strong. That is the reason for our belief in souls, after-life, etc. We just want to live for ever. On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 7:33 AM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: We are biological organisms, Neil, and will remain thus. The future would either belong to us with us as the drivers and the controllers or to the machines. It would be a case of biological supremacy or robottical supremacy. In the end there would be doomsday and we together with machines and the universe would be annihilated by the Supreme force which is neither machine nor human. It is just a discussion between the few us and I don't think it would ever reach the ears of those who make policies in this world and yet not superfluous as it is a good exercise of the brain muscle, is it not, Neil? On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 7:08 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: We are already becoming useless appendages to the bosses. Once robots can do the work, the bosses will dispose of us. If the machines became Terminators, they would only be doing what humans have done to countless species. We might, of course RP, become the machines. The women aren't in this thread - is this a boy's toys thing? On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 1:20:35 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: Machines might not even want us, Neil. We might be useless appendage to them and might be exterminated. On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 6:23 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: We might already be living under the tyranny of our gene machines RP. On Tuesday, 10 March 2015 00:22:49 UTC, RP Singh wrote: As long as man is sane he will not destroy humanity though he might loot it for self aggrandizement, But some contribution to the human pool will remain, We can't be that sure with machines and they must always remain subservient to us otherwise we will be at risk to lose the very freedom for which we are making so much effort. Again, my contention is know your nature and potential before you make machines that surpass our intelligence because cold and calculating freaks might not be loyal to us, rather live in tyranny of humans than under the rule of heartless machines. On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 5:26 AM, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: I have always regarded Ursula Le Guin's The Dispossessed as one of the greatest SF novels ever written. In her depiction of the anarchist society of Annares, the whole administration of practical organisation is carried out by computers. This serves to take a major component of the exercise of power out of the area of human relations. "Rule" is basically the exercise of power. The will to power seems to be one of the strongest human urges - indeed, it's wider than just human - take the constant jostling for rank and status in a wolf-pack, for example. I suspect most of those of us involved here in this forum are freaks as we don't seem to possess much of it. Personally I don't get it, but I must acknowledge that it seems to be (and always has been) an immensely strong driving force for a lot of people. Our concepts of freedom and autonomy make my initial reaction to the idea of "rule by machine" instinctively and immediately suspicious. But then, on reflection, I'm already being "ruled" by all sorts of shadowy people/groups/elites, who daily make all sorts of decisions which have huge effects on the life I live and who certainly don't have an sense of my well-being in mind (apart from that portion of my material assets which is part of a pension fund/savings/investment fund/life insurance - which then has the notionally privileged status of being the object of shareholder-value). Could machines fuck things up any worse than humans do at the moment? I wonder if there aren't some deep neurotic guilt/fear things at work here. There's the old story of the Sorcerer's Apprentice, who Goethe has despairingly calling out; "Herr, die Noth ist groß! Die ich rief, die Geister, Werd’ ich nun nicht los. [Master, I'm in deep shit here! I can't get rid of the fucking spirits I summoned]." Or the idea that when the Singularity comes, the first things the machine intelligences will do is get rid of us for being hopelessly corrupt and imperfect. It's the feeling that we're giving over control to something else - something we may try to programme so that it is benevolent towards us - but where there are no guarantees. But what guarantees do we have right now? And who controls? Am Montag, 9. März 2015 08:44:34 UTC+1 schrieb archytas: Human leadership is corrupt. The history is clear. We form empires of violence. At the start of WW1, about 1911 with the Italian invasion of part of the declining Ottoman Empire, we had a population the planet could manage, new technologies that could have released us from work serfdom and the potential to grow green and surpass our libidinal-violent biology. Instead we went to war and have over-populated like a bacterial colony poisoning itself. This war to end all war led to another one, largely about exhausting the Wehrmacht on Soviet forces. I have no idea how these wars started, interesting given how much education I've had. The Americans won and everyone else lost, but Americans generally wanted no part of the stuff. Various fables on cause make no sense. Much can be said on this, yet we evade the fairly obvious reality that human society is generally dire. About 250,000 of the 400,000 inhabitants of the zenith of the Athenian democracy were slaves, and slaving was the major Black Sea industry from then until 1870. Machines could help us get over ourselves and establish a rational society. This would be a rebellion to remove the allocation class that owns nearly everything a monetary value can be put on. We would embody knowledge in the machines (we already do) and rely on their genuine rationality instead of our faux version, corrupted by our libidinal-violent biology. Most people are very scared of intelligent machines and rather like the idea humans are superior because we can remove their plugs. We worry they will destroy us in a world with 8,000 nuclear weapons in safe human hands that are not problematic. Genghis Khan killed about a third of his known world's population. Why do we hate machines so much? Do we fear their rationality shames us? We are all now chronically ignorant compared with extra-somatic databases. Maybe we fear control by machines operating in the interests of a small group or police state - yet this 'machine' is already in place as a socio-technical human endeavor as the allocation class in real power we can't vote out. We could change a lot if we weren't so naff about this. Anyone here even think about it? In terms of data, what we chatter about, changes as data if we are not actually interested in large-scale human change. -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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