Allan, I thought you were American. On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 12:01 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> The Hindu beliefs say you live for ever.. as does my Russian soul. > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: RP Singh <[email protected]> > To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> > Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 4:55 AM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Rule By Machine > > The idea of death just drives the shit out of us, the survival instinct is > that strong. That is the reason for our belief in souls, after-life, etc. > We just want to live for ever. > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 7:33 AM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > >> We are biological organisms, Neil, and will remain thus. The future would >> either belong to us with us as the drivers and the controllers or to the >> machines. It would be a case of biological supremacy or robottical >> supremacy. In the end there would be doomsday and we together with machines >> and the universe would be annihilated by the Supreme force which is neither >> machine nor human. It is just a discussion between the few us and I don't >> think it would ever reach the ears of those who make policies in this world >> and yet not superfluous as it is a good exercise of the brain muscle, is it >> not, Neil? >> >> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 7:08 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> We are already becoming useless appendages to the bosses. Once robots >>> can do the work, the bosses will dispose of us. If the machines became >>> Terminators, they would only be doing what humans have done to countless >>> species. We might, of course RP, become the machines. >>> >>> The women aren't in this thread - is this a boy's toys thing? >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 1:20:35 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >>>> >>>> Machines might not even want us, Neil. We might be useless appendage to >>>> them and might be exterminated. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 6:23 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> We might already be living under the tyranny of our gene machines RP. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, 10 March 2015 00:22:49 UTC, RP Singh wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> As long as man is sane he will not destroy humanity though he might >>>>>> loot it for self aggrandizement, But some contribution to the human pool >>>>>> will remain, We can't be that sure with machines and they must always >>>>>> remain subservient to us otherwise we will be at risk to lose the very >>>>>> freedom for which we are making so much effort. Again, my contention is >>>>>> know your nature and potential before you make machines that surpass our >>>>>> intelligence because cold and calculating freaks might not be loyal to >>>>>> us, >>>>>> rather live in tyranny of humans than under the rule of heartless >>>>>> machines. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 5:26 AM, frantheman <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have always regarded Ursula Le Guin's *The Dispossessed >>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dispossessed> *as one of the >>>>>>> greatest SF novels ever written. In her depiction of the anarchist >>>>>>> society >>>>>>> of Annares, the whole administration of practical organisation is >>>>>>> carried >>>>>>> out by computers. This serves to take a major component of the exercise >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> power out of the area of human relations. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Rule" is basically the exercise of power. The will to power seems >>>>>>> to be one of the strongest human urges - indeed, it's wider than just >>>>>>> human >>>>>>> - take the constant jostling for rank and status in a wolf-pack, for >>>>>>> example. I suspect most of those of us involved here in this forum are >>>>>>> freaks as we don't seem to possess much of it. Personally I don't get >>>>>>> it, >>>>>>> but I must acknowledge that it seems to be (and always has been) an >>>>>>> immensely strong driving force for a lot of people. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Our concepts of freedom and autonomy make my initial reaction to the >>>>>>> idea of "rule by machine" instinctively and immediately suspicious. But >>>>>>> then, on reflection, I'm already being "ruled" by all sorts of shadowy >>>>>>> people/groups/elites, who daily make all sorts of decisions which have >>>>>>> huge >>>>>>> effects on the life I live and who certainly don't have an sense of my >>>>>>> well-being in mind (apart from that portion of my material assets which >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> part of a pension fund/savings/investment fund/life insurance - which >>>>>>> then >>>>>>> has the notionally privileged status of being the object of >>>>>>> shareholder-value). Could machines fuck things up any worse than humans >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> at the moment? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wonder if there aren't some deep neurotic guilt/fear things at >>>>>>> work here. There's the old story of the Sorcerer's Apprentice, who >>>>>>> Goethe >>>>>>> has despairingly calling out; "Herr, die Noth ist groß! Die ich rief, >>>>>>> die >>>>>>> Geister, Werd’ ich nun nicht los. [Master, I'm in deep shit here! I >>>>>>> can't >>>>>>> get rid of the fucking spirits I summoned]." Or the idea that when the >>>>>>> Singularity <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity> >>>>>>> comes, >>>>>>> the first things the machine intelligences will do is get rid of us for >>>>>>> being hopelessly corrupt and imperfect. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's the feeling that we're giving over control to something else - >>>>>>> something we may try to programme so that it is benevolent towards us - >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> where there are no guarantees. But what guarantees do we have right now? >>>>>>> And who controls? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am Montag, 9. März 2015 08:44:34 UTC+1 schrieb archytas: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Human leadership is corrupt. The history is clear. We form >>>>>>>> empires of violence. At the start of WW1, about 1911 with the Italian >>>>>>>> invasion of part of the declining Ottoman Empire, we had a population >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> planet could manage, new technologies that could have released us from >>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>> serfdom and the potential to grow green and surpass our >>>>>>>> libidinal-violent >>>>>>>> biology. Instead we went to war and have over-populated like a >>>>>>>> bacterial >>>>>>>> colony poisoning itself. This war to end all war led to another one, >>>>>>>> largely about exhausting the Wehrmacht on Soviet forces. I have no >>>>>>>> idea >>>>>>>> how these wars started, interesting given how much education I've had. >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>> Americans won and everyone else lost, but Americans generally wanted no >>>>>>>> part of the stuff. Various fables on cause make no sense. Much can be >>>>>>>> said on this, yet we evade the fairly obvious reality that human >>>>>>>> society is >>>>>>>> generally dire. About 250,000 of the 400,000 inhabitants of the >>>>>>>> zenith of >>>>>>>> the Athenian democracy were slaves, and slaving was the major Black Sea >>>>>>>> industry from then until 1870. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Machines could help us get over ourselves and establish a rational >>>>>>>> society. This would be a rebellion to remove the allocation class that >>>>>>>> owns nearly everything a monetary value can be put on. We would embody >>>>>>>> knowledge in the machines (we already do) and rely on their genuine >>>>>>>> rationality instead of our faux version, corrupted by our >>>>>>>> libidinal-violent >>>>>>>> biology. Most people are very scared of intelligent machines and rather >>>>>>>> like the idea humans are superior because we can remove their plugs. >>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>> worry they will destroy us in a world with 8,000 nuclear weapons in >>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>> human hands that are not problematic. Genghis Khan killed about a >>>>>>>> third of >>>>>>>> his known world's population. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Why do we hate machines so much? Do we fear their rationality >>>>>>>> shames us? We are all now chronically ignorant compared with >>>>>>>> extra-somatic >>>>>>>> databases. Maybe we fear control by machines operating in the >>>>>>>> interests of >>>>>>>> a small group or police state - yet this 'machine' is already in place >>>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>> socio-technical human endeavor as the allocation class in real power we >>>>>>>> can't vote out. We could change a lot if we weren't so naff about >>>>>>>> this. >>>>>>>> Anyone here even think about it? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In terms of data, what we chatter about, changes as data if we are >>>>>>>> not actually interested in large-scale human change. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> > -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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