> [Arlo]
> Personally I find Pirsig's sentiment here somewhat
> naive and hopelessly simplistic. "Crime" is not a
function of
> "intellect's failure to support social patterns", as
crime has
> been a factor in life dating as far back as
Hammurabi.
I don't think intellect has failed to support
social patterns. I think the intellect currently
supporting social patterns is degenerative in its'
value. Social patterns are not very valuable.
Remember when the Pine Ridge Amerindians where dancing
in 1890. Dancing for hope. Dancing for a dream come
true. It lifted their spirits. They found a social
activity that was positive to their hearts. Remember
how the army got so scared. Oh, their dancing, they
must be planning something. I find this approach to
social functions to be current. The main social
activity today is found in the workplace with other
employees. After work, it's home to the family or out
to the bar. On weekends a couple hours at church does
seem to be at least more informal and more positive.
They sing at church. People trust each other more.
They have time to discuss with each other about their
vacations, work, family, yard, etc... No wonder my
wife finds church to be more a social activity than
just a bow down to G-d activity (I don't go to church
with her, but I've been to some before).
[Arlo]
> I, personally, do not know of any sociological
tradition that demands > forgoing law in favor of
"talking to them". Some may foreground
> rehabilitation, others may seek to kill the plant by
getting to the
> roots, others have vigilante
> fantasies about solving the problem by simply
> beating the thugs with
> police batons. Likely a solution has to be
> multifaceted, one that
> brings greater force down on criminals, as well as
> one that addresses
> root-causes, and one that addresses the balance
> between punishment
> and rehabilitation (incarceration costs the
> taxpayers millions of dollars).
That seems to be a current trend. Rehabilitate
people back into 'normal' society. But we've all
probably heard before, "What is normal?"
[Arlo]
> But consider this. America, the land you hold as
> "more free" than the
> "socialized" regions of Canada and Europe, has a
> much higher rate of
> crime, violence and the "gang" activity of those
> "inner city blacks"
> you seem to loathe so deeply. What is it that these
> other countries
> are doing, that we are not, that is keeping this
> level of "biological
> violence" in check? Are these "socialized" regions
> guided by a better
> intellectual pattern than America? Does that account
> for their ability to keep crime and violence at much
lower
> levels than in the
> US? Do they "raise their children with more
> discipline" in Canada? Do
> the schools use "humiliation" (a tactic you recently
> called to be used in schools here) in these areas,
and is that
> responsible?
All good questions. Also, Japan, a very strong
economic society over the last 50 years. Japan's
crime rate is very, very low. But I have difficulty
putting together everybody gets $50 and that solves
all the problems. That's a bit too surface of a
solution. Something else must be going on. Could it
be the impression that government cares? These
governments attempt to help their citizens get their
basic needs and medical care. Could it be in the
attempt, just having that loud voice declared
throughout the country that we care and will try to
help, and then 'things' visibly happen that people
find this caring and visible follow through on this
attempt to care - soothing and helpful. It is this
support attempt. Is that all we need, a big part of
what we need, a small part of what we need, or not
what we need? I don't know. Just a thought. But
then at work, we provide all the necessities for the
youth, and we don't yell at them, are 98% of the time
not demeaning towards them overall as staff, and do
try to do something to help them, but we still hear so
much from them, "Nobody cares. You guys don't care."
woods,
SA
____________________________________________________________________________________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
