Quoting ARLO J BENSINGER JR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> The picture you paint, here, is of a safe white America with pockets of deep > violence in its black communities. If this is so, please explain to me how > "intellect" is at fault. Why has "intellect" failed only the black > communities, > but left a safe, wholesome white hinterland surrounding them? > > [Platt] > I agree with Pirsig that modern intellect has failed to deal with crime > regardless of the skin color. > > [Arlo] > So are we talking about crime in general (per capita crime rates), rates of > violent crime (homicide) or "black crime in the inner city ghettos"? All crime, but particularly black crime in the inner city ghettos which Pirsig specifically addressed. > [Platt] > These are straw men and you know it. > > [Arlo] > They are not "straw men", they speak to the real area from where your rhetoric > derives. When we talked about "political correctness", a thing you loathe so > loudly, I had asked you to provide me with examples of things you wish you > could say but "can't". You bemoan the soft treatment of Michael Vick, let cry > about the unfair attack on Kramer, you've said the success of Japanse public > schools has everything to do with their being a "monoculture" (these were your > words), implying that the presence of "blacks and minorities" is to blame for > the so-called "failure" of America schools. So? > And now, in this argument you've > waffled between "crime" and "black crime in the inner city ghettos" implying > that the only real crime in America is committed by blacks. Nonsense. I never said or implied anything about "real" crime. Another red herring. > And, you've > recently soft-sided with those who, you propose, may have a sound argument for > how "interracial marriage" may be behind the "decline of society". So? > Far from "straw men", Platt, they evidence the position you are coming from, > but are afraid to say outright. Have I ever hid the "position I'm coming from?" If so, show the evidence. You, on the other hand, consistently deny your leftist leanings. > [Platt] > Urban ghettos where crime is higher than in other areas of society which > happen > to be in large part inhabited by blacks but not exclusively as you seen to > suggest. > > [Arlo] > So really tell me what specific crime, committed by what specific population, > are we talking about? Are we talking about "inner city crime" in general, > including all the whites, latinos, asians and all other minorities living in > high-unemployment, low-quality areas? And you are telling me that the reason > for all this "inner-city crime" is a failure of "intellect" to deal sternly > with these people? Can you think of no other reason, or solution, to > inner-city > crime than "soft professors" and "beating them with a stick"? See Pirsig on the absence of morality in intellectual's attempted control of society and it's paralysis at being accused of racism. > [Platt] > Drugs, gangs, rap, and an intellectual "let's talk crime to death" attitude. > > [Arlo] > Who is "talking crime to death"? What programs or specific policies are you > condemning? The quote is direct from Pirsig. If you disagree, spell it out. Or write and ask him that question. > [Platt] > It's a problem, but let's not be afraid to identify those most affected for > fear of being called "racist.". > > [Arlo] > And do you think the higher rates of violent crime among black populations has > anything to do with anything other than "intellect talking crime to death"? I > will tell you I think part of the problem is profiteers (love the free market, > though) who sell anger and violence and who rake in millions selling an > ideology of hopelessness. But, sadly, there IS real hopelessness, and there > are > social-contextual, and economic, patterns that also need to be addressed. Evidence? > [Platt] > Yes -- appointing or electing judges who will uphold the law. > > [Arlo] > >From the Straight Dope, "According to the International Centre for Prison > Studies at King's College London, the U.S. currently has the largest > documented > prison population in the world, both in absolute and proportional terms. We've > got roughly 2.03 million people behind bars, or 701 per 100,000 population." > How are judges "not upholding the law"? Should we be incarcerating even more? > Should we abolish rehabilitation programs? What has the number of people in prison got to do with judges upholding the law? > What studies or statistics can you cite as evidence that judges in the US, by > and large, are not upholding the law? None at the moment. But, I'll see if I can find some. It's a general impression, however, that many have, like your impression of profiteering causing urban violence. > [Platt] > Also taking the enforcement steps like Guilani initiated as mayor of New York. > > [Arlo] > So you are in favor of gun control? Or steps like he took but not that one? > What steps then? You want me to document all the techniques Guilani used? Do you doubt that he reduced crime in NY? > [Platt] > OK, now it's your turn. Tell us what you would do to reduce crime in the > urban ghettos and elsewhere. > > [Arlo] > Understanding that crime can never be eradicated, I'd say (I did already say > this) that "crime" must be addressed with a multi-faceted approach, specific > to > different crimes. What specifically does that mean? ? Certainly more aggressive policing is needed in high-crime > areas, but any real solution has also got to consider root causes and deal > with > these as well. Like the root cause that intellect doesn't recognize morals? What other root causes? > The violence in America is largely due to to culture of violence > that, for one example, says it is okay to show a bloody shootout and people > exploding on television, but show a woman's breast or two people making love > and your "evil and immoral". We censor "love" but condone the extremes of > violence. So your answer to crime is to show less violence and more nudity? How about reducing crime by everyone going nude in public as you have sanctioned? ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
