[Platt] Wrong. You made the claim that the U.S. led all other countries in crime. I corrected you with the EVIDENCE of a UN study showing that some socialist countries had a higher per capita crime rate than the U.S.
[Arlo] Wrong. You claimed intellect was failing as evidenced by the violence of gangs, etc. I claimed (rightfully so) that America was among the top (number five) in homicide. The study you cite is simply "per capita crime rate", which may include rates of jaywalking, shoplifting, speeding, etc. So while Iceland may indeed have a higher per capita crime rate than the US, perhaps because Icelanders notoriously drive fast circling their island, the US ranks leaps and bounds above Iceland in the per capital commission of violence and homicide. But even this I said I would grant you. So America is safer than the socialist countries. Then I said I don't see the problem. If Iceland is so much more dangerous than the US, why the big fuss over how intellect is failing? You replied by changing the topic from "per capita crime" to "violence in the inner city ghettos". The picture you paint, here, is of a safe white America with pockets of deep violence in its black communities. If this is so, please explain to me how "intellect" is at fault. Why has "intellect" failed only the black communities, but left a safe, wholesome white hinterland surrounding them? [Platt] I agree with Pirsig that modern intellect has failed to deal with crime regardless of the skin color. [Arlo] So are we talking about crime in general (per capita crime rates), rates of violent crime (homicide) or "black crime in the inner city ghettos"? [Platt] These are straw men and you know it. [Arlo] They are not "straw men", they speak to the real area from where your rhetoric derives. When we talked about "political correctness", a thing you loathe so loudly, I had asked you to provide me with examples of things you wish you could say but "can't". You bemoan the soft treatment of Michael Vick, let cry about the unfair attack on Kramer, you've said the success of Japanse public schools has everything to do with their being a "monoculture" (these were your words), implying that the presence of "blacks and minorities" is to blame for the so-called "failure" of America schools. And now, in this argument you've waffled between "crime" and "black crime in the inner city ghettos" implying that the only real crime in America is committed by blacks. And, you've recently soft-sided with those who, you propose, may have a sound argument for how "interracial marriage" may be behind the "decline of society". Far from "straw men", Platt, they evidence the position you are coming from, but are afraid to say outright. [Platt] Urban ghettos where crime is higher than in other areas of society which happen to be in large part inhabited by blacks but not exclusively as you seen to suggest. [Arlo] So really tell me what specific crime, committed by what specific population, are we talking about? Are we talking about "inner city crime" in general, including all the whites, latinos, asians and all other minorities living in high-unemployment, low-quality areas? And you are telling me that the reason for all this "inner-city crime" is a failure of "intellect" to deal sternly with these people? Can you think of no other reason, or solution, to inner-city crime than "soft professors" and "beating them with a stick"? [Platt] Drugs, gangs, rap, and an intellectual "let's talk crime to death" attitude. [Arlo] Who is "talking crime to death"? What programs or specific policies are you condemning? [Platt] It's a problem, but let's not be afraid to identify those most affected for fear of being called "racist.". [Arlo] And do you think the higher rates of violent crime among black populations has anything to do with anything other than "intellect talking crime to death"? I will tell you I think part of the problem is profiteers (love the free market, though) who sell anger and violence and who rake in millions selling an ideology of hopelessness. But, sadly, there IS real hopelessness, and there are social-contextual, and economic, patterns that also need to be addressed. [Platt] Yes -- appointing or electing judges who will uphold the law. [Arlo] >From the Straight Dope, "According to the International Centre for Prison Studies at King's College London, the U.S. currently has the largest documented prison population in the world, both in absolute and proportional terms. We've got roughly 2.03 million people behind bars, or 701 per 100,000 population." How are judges "not upholding the law"? Should we be incarcerating even more? Should we abolish rehabilitation programs? What studies or statistics can you cite as evidence that judges in the US, by and large, are not upholding the law? [Platt] Also taking the enforcement steps like Guilani initiated as mayor of New York. [Arlo] So you are in favor of gun control? Or steps like he took but not that one? What steps then? [Platt] OK, now it's your turn. Tell us what you would do to reduce crime in the urban ghettos and elsewhere. [Arlo] Understanding that crime can never be eradicated, I'd say (I did already say this) that "crime" must be addressed with a multi-faceted approach, specific to different crimes. Certainly more aggressive policing is needed in high-crime areas, but any real solution has also got to consider root causes and deal with these as well. The violence in America is largely due to to culture of violence that, for one example, says it is okay to show a bloody shootout and people exploding on television, but show a woman's breast or two people making love and your "evil and immoral". We censor "love" but condone the extremes of violence. 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