Quoting Arlo Bensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Quoting Arlo Bensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> [Platt] > So the black is hired because of his skin color, not his competence? > > [Arlo] > No, competent blacks are awarded some advantage to compensate for the > otherwise disadvantegous, racially-biased playing field that exists. > Its not a perfect solution, but until the xenophobic idiocy of "race" > is dismissed once and for all, its a necessary evil. And that's where > we are. Call me when this changes. Yes, we know you have the patronizing attitude that blacks are victims unable to fend for themselves and must have whitey's "help." > [Arlo had said] > No, the original claims was yours, that "blacks" step to the front > of the line more often than they are denied opportunity. Let's see > some evidence. > > [Platt] > Affirmative action laws. You just suggested above that such laws were > effective. > > [Arlo] > What evidence do you have that "affirmative action laws" push more > blacks to the front of the line, than our racial society denies them > opportunity? And I'm not sure I'd say these laws are "effective", as > we still are obviously dealing with a lot of xenophobic morons, but > until all people are judged solely by their competence.... er, strik > that, judged by whether or not they are a _good_ person, I see no > recourse but to support these laws. Yes, we know. The other recourse is to treat blacks like other people of goodwill -- as equals. But then you would get no moral authority or credit when blacks independently succeed on their own. > [Platt] > Geez, on top of everything else you're a postmodernist who believes > it's a fact there are no facts? > > [Arlo] > And I roast children on open spits! Actually, one could make a strong > argument for Pirsig being a "postmodernist". So I am happy to be in that camp. That's what I said. You are in the postmodernist camp that advances its own concept of truth while simultaneously denying there is such a thing. > > "The intellectual level of patterns, in the historic process of > freeing itself from its parent social level, namely the church, has > tended to invent a myth of independence from the social level for its > own benefit. Science and reason, this myth goes, come only from the > objective world, never from the social world. The world of objects > imposes itself upon the mind with no social mediation whatsoever. It > is easy to see the historic reasons for this myth of independence. > Science might never have survived without it. But a close examination > shows it isn't so." (Pirsig) > > I agree. Nowhere does Pirsig suggest that certain societies are free of the effects of gravity or earthquakes. The language may be different but the results are the same. > [Platt] > Of course. Qualified scientists always seek to support hatred. Yeah, right. > > [Arlo] > No, "qualified scientists" operate within the paradigm they accept. > Many "qualified scientists" argued (continue to argue) that the world > is flat. Name the qualified scientists who continue to argue the world is flat. > Many "qualified scientists" argued back in Plato's day that > the world was composed of "fire" or "change" or "atoms" or whatever. > Many in Nazi Germany argued that science proved the inferiority of the Jews. What's your point? That scientists can make mistakes? Scientists can support a political agenda? I agree. Global warming is a great example. [Platt] > Why don't you tell that to Wikipedia? If you want to bury your head > in sand it's your problem, not the problem of "us all". > > [Arlo] > I don't take Wikipedia, nor any other singular source, as the end-all > word on anything. I can tell you that years of reading sociological, > psychological, anthropological and socio-cultural studies indicate > far more evidence that the embodiment of fear is socially > constructed. Now, you may argue that "fear", like "love" or "joy" or > "sadness" are hardwired human emotions. Perhaps I might agree to let > that stand. But the embodiment of these emotions, what we love, what > we fear, what makes us happy, what makes us sad, are derived from > social-cultural assimilation. Of course, personal experience is part > of that, someone bitten by a dog may develop a fear of dogs, but > general fears are created and transmitted by social custom, language, > and structure. That you "fear" may be genetic., that you "fear > blacks" is the result of ideological propaganda and a racial-oriented > society that seeks scapegoats in the "other". You accept the science that supports you agenda but reject the science that doesn't. I see no difference between your "evidence" and mine. > [Platt] > Oh. So now Ham and I are "evil," like all who believe in and want to > protect individual freedom. > > [Arlo] > No, you are evil for your continued use of distortive and vile > rhetoric. Now your use "inane dichotomies" you constantly preach against. > Ham is simply wrong (in my opinion), and while may stroke > the "individual" incessantly, I would not call Ham evil at all, just > a guy with a different metaphysical base. I find him somewhat > arrogant about music, but then I'm sure I come across arrogant about > my love of the Sex Pistols. > > And here, as if on perfect cue, is another wonderful illustration of > that evil, moronic rhetoiric, "all who believe in and want to protect > individual freedom". Yep, I think all people who believe in > individual freedom are evil, Platt. You nailed it. Just me and my > big, bad "lib" plot to enslave the world. Damn you freedom loving > conservatives for spoiling my nefarious agenda! Your attack on individualism is self-evident. And you put words in my mouth never said. Talk about vile and despicable rhetoric. > [Arlo on using sarcasm] > Highlights the vulgarity and despicable nature of your rhetoric. > But you're likely right, I probably don't need to do it, since it is > rather self-evident. > > [Platt] > So don't. > > [Arlo] > Don't say moronic things like you just did above and I won't have to. Why do you "have to" if it's self-evident? Sometimes, Arlo, you really are hilarious. ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
