Hi SA --
[Ham said to Ant]: > Sorry, Ant, but SOM is part of any philosophy -- > even the MoQ. I accept the Buddhist view that the "I" > or Self is negational or illusory. Nevertheless, it is the > active agent in the differentiated (conditional) world > that we all share, and there is no way we can live out > our existence without it. [SA]: > Ham, referring to "Nevertheless, it is the active > agent..." First off, do you mean THE "active agent". > If so, I disagree and so do earthquakes. But that is > too simple, and I don't think you meant THE. > Secondly, the "Self" is an "active agent" in the > MoQ. It is why dq is sq. Dq is changing, and shows > how sq is really a process. The MoQ doesn't live > "without it". This "Self" is static quality. Yes, I do mean THE active agent. Earthquakes and other natural events are not "agents"; they are the objects of experience -- intellectualized constructs of an otherness which is universal but is perceived differentially by the proprietary self. Primary value is not a "process", but its differentiated awareness is. Since everything in the natural world is perceived by the self as in process, and all perception is experienced in time, how can self awareness be "static"? [Ham, previously]: > Change is the only permanent thing in existence. > However, I don't believe it is natural or common to > desire permanency, per se. We all want to grow > and participate in the freedom of this (dynamic) process. > I believe we have become overly materialistic, which > has diminished our sense of value and brought on the > "cultural psychosis" of irresponsible behavior. This > must be corrected before we totally regress to a > jungle morality. [SA]: > I agree with this Ham. The hardening of > materialistic views squares off any other values from > permeating ones perspective. Materials, to use MoQ, > are on the inorganic level, and yes, people can make, > culturalize, materials into very beautiful things to > look at, touch, and allow our expressions another > medium to, well, express ourselves through. These > expressions though reach into the intellectual, social > levels, but to want and desire things in the sense you > meant above detracts from other valuable activities, > such as sitting at the table and eating dinner with > the family. This neglect of social activities and > intellectual activities that help form bonds that are > lasting, stress-relieving, and as one may say, from > the heart, tear the fabric of our lives as a society > apart and I join you in this view that "...'cultural > psychosis' of irresponsible behavior... must be > corrected before we totally regress to a jungle > morality." We would probably agree on more, if you would not try so hard to fit your concepts into the MoQ mold. Essentially yours, Ham Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
