[Platt] What Arlo fails to say is that the author makes a distinction between real and imaginary selves, and states a warning
[Arlo] Arlo didn't fail to point out anything. I simply referenced an article I thought was interesting and related to the topic being discussed. Since the link led to the full text, and I assume everyone is capable of left-clicking on a link, nothing was hidden here. [Platt] "But if we have lost reality in the process, we shall have struck a poor bargain." (from aforementioned article). [Arlo] As I said, the concept of self, although illusory, brings great pragmatic rewards. Seems I already echoed this caution. [Platt] Dangerous? How so?. If there are no selves, who can pose a threat? [Arlo] Does a volcano pose a threat? Does it have a "self"? [Platt] This reference contains the following caveat: [Arlo] Ah, you've proven you can click on a link like I would have assumed. Excellent! Although I take it you skipped over anything and everything to find only that related to the "controversy", so that you can smugly sit back and feel good that you have debunked the Buddhist notion of anatta. Certainly it is controversial. And as I said I am not expert in Buddhism. Maybe some of the more knowledgeable among us can chime in on this concept. [Platt] Seems I am not alone in questioning the illusory self. Some far smarter than me also judge this truth to be of low quality. [Arlo] The concept of self allows great pragmatic reward. Attaching too greatly to this concept is as low quality as detaching from it too greatly. Pirsig noticed this in ZMM. "But one day in the classroom the professor of philosophy was blithely expounding on the illusory nature of the world for what seemed the fiftieth time and Phædrus raised his hand and asked coldly if it was believed that the atomic bombs that had dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were illusory. The professor smiled and said yes. That was the end of the exchange. Within the traditions of Indian philosophy that answer may have been correct, but for Phædrus and for anyone else who reads newspapers regularly and is concerned with such things as mass destruction of human beings that answer was hopelessly inadequate. He left the classroom, left India and gave up." (ZMM) But that didn't lead Pirsig into a no-holds-barred embrace of the self in the other direction. Instead, balance is achieved by dismissing both extreme attachments. "Zen Buddhists talk about "just sitting," a meditative practice in which the idea of a duality of self and object does not dominate one's consciousness. What I'm talking about here in motorcyele maintenance is "just fixing," in which the idea of a duality of self and object doesn't dominate one's consciousness. When one isn't dominated by feelings of separateness from what he's working on, then one can be said to "care" about what he's doing. That is what caring really is, a feeling of identification with what one's doing. When one has this feeling then he also sees the inverse side of caring, Quality itself. ... So the thing to do when working on a motorcycle, as in any other task, is to cultivate the peace of mind which does not separate one's self from one's surroundings. " (ZMM) Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
