Dr. McWatt, I find it interesting how you can jump in start a pissing contest yet you're no where to be found in regard to the subject of the thread, Preintellect, how I contend that it is as s/o laden as conceptual thought or that how MOQ attributes reality as contained in the conceptual as having subjective idealists paralelles (which is usually neatly met with MOQ does not term subject in the same context so it does not apply). I state these are ideas to consider when interpreting the MOQ, It seems though that too many are accustomed to their self relagated status of elevated awareness above SOM and neatly dispatch any concept that does not match their own interpretation of MOQ as being lost in the convention of SOM.
I would rather not see the MOQ discuss be the refuge of intellectual cowardace. I expect the retort to blot out the sun. I suppose I'll have to reason in the shade. Respectfully yours -Ron p.s. Platt did have a contendable point regardless of any personel distain of his ideals, Bertrum Russell says flatly,"Belief in the existence of things outside my own biography... must be regarded as a prejudice." But our justification of such belief is pragmatic: we survive and act successfully in the world by assuming it. I agree with Peirce, "Let us not pretend to doubt in philosophy what we do not doubt in our hearts." -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ant McWatt Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 10:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MD] subject / object logic Platt was talking to Ron Kulp September 17th: Admittedly I haven't been following your discussion with SA and David all that closely, but for what it's worth I agree with the thrust of your argument here. As I've argued with Ant, it seems that some here as well as Pirsig will bring the mystic viewpoint into the conversation when it seems to suit them... Ant McWatt comments: Platt, Interesting, so where exactly do you think Pirsig brings the mystic viewpoint "into the conversation" when it seems just to suit him? I think you actually meant to say "As I've tried to avoid arguing with Ant (and S-A), it seems that less enlightened people (in relation to world poverty, global warming, etc.) will often ignore the mystic viewpoint as it suits their selfish lifestyle to do so." Platt continued his propaganda: While at the same time denying that the mystic viewpoint is of much use in the "everyday world" where we ride motorcycles, drink beer and pick up bar ladies (assuming we're not married of course). Ant McWatt comments: I hadn't noticed that "assuming we're not married" qualification in ZMM before. You'll also have to point that out to me Platt. :-) Anyway, the mystic or Dynamic viewpoint is useful because, for example, it helps us see that everything is all inter-related so deters one from picking-up a bar lady when married because if everyone behaved that way, family stability (and hence wider society) would eventually be undermined. Mr Self-righteous continued: I don't know about [those evil Buddhist monks, left-wing academics and hippies] but the everyday world to me is the "real" world where I live, love, paint and will eventually depart from. The mystic world of drugs, dreams and illusions is all very well if living in a monastery is your idea of the good life. Ant McWatt comments: So that's what all those monks are up to? Book me in! Platt continued his self-righteous lecture: Personally, like Pirsig, I'd rather be on an expensive boat cruising down the Hudson River eating steak and, when arriving in NYC, staying at the Ritz Plaza using money I've earned from my books. Ant McWatt comments: Personally, like Pirsig, I don't see someone having an expensive yacht cruising down the Hudson River eating steak etc., from their own hard work and, on the other hand, being a mystic, having dreams and "tools" to reach more enlightened states as mutually exclusive. The MOQ "good life" has a balance of both "static" and "Dynamic" elements to it. Platt concluded: In any case, you are not alone in your assessment of "reality." Sometimes it's good to know you are not the only one who has no doubt that he is planted firmly on the seat of a speeding bike while enjoying the beauty of a passing scene. Ant McWatt comments: Then suddenly Ron wakes up and realises he was just dreaming... Good dream though. . _________________________________________________________________ Discover sweet stuff waiting for you at the Messenger Cafe. Claim your treat today! http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_SeptHMtagline2 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
