Quoting Arlo Bensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > [Platt] > What Arlo fails to say is that the author makes a > distinction between real and imaginary selves, and states a warning > > [Arlo] > Arlo didn't fail to point out anything. I simply > referenced an article I thought was interesting > and related to the topic being discussed. Since > the link led to the full text, and I assume > everyone is capable of left-clicking on a link, nothing was hidden here.
Why cite the reference unless the implication was to support your view that "self" is imaginary, the topic of discussion? > [Platt] > "But if we have lost reality in the process, we > shall have struck a poor bargain." (from aforementioned article). > > [Arlo] > As I said, the concept of self, although > illusory, brings great pragmatic rewards. Seems I already echoed this caution. > > [Platt] > Dangerous? How so?. If there are no selves, who can pose a threat? > > [Arlo] > Does a volcano pose a threat? Does it have a "self"? Since when is a volcano referred to as a "who?" Or a "self?" > [Platt] > This reference contains the following caveat: > > [Arlo] > Ah, you've proven you can click on a link like I > would have assumed. Excellent! Although I take it > you skipped over anything and everything to find > only that related to the "controversy", so that > you can smugly sit back and feel good that you > have debunked the Buddhist notion of anatta. > > Certainly it is controversial. And as I said I am > not expert in Buddhism. Maybe some of the more > knowledgeable among us can chime in on this concept. Whether I "smugly sit back and feel good" is irrelevant to the discussion. Your character attack simply reflects the tactics of moveon.org. So it comes as no surprise. > [Platt] > Seems I am not alone in questioning the illusory > self. Some far smarter than me also judge this truth to be of low quality. > > [Arlo] > The concept of self allows great pragmatic > reward. Attaching too greatly to this concept is > as low quality as detaching from it too greatly. > > Pirsig noticed this in ZMM. > > "But one day in the classroom the professor of > philosophy was blithely expounding on the > illusory nature of the world for what seemed the > fiftieth time and Phædrus raised his hand and > asked coldly if it was believed that the atomic > bombs that had dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki > were illusory. The professor smiled and said yes. > That was the end of the exchange. > > Within the traditions of Indian philosophy that > answer may have been correct, but for Phædrus and > for anyone else who reads newspapers regularly > and is concerned with such things as mass > destruction of human beings that answer was > hopelessly inadequate. He left the classroom, left India and gave up." (ZMM) > > But that didn't lead Pirsig into a > no-holds-barred embrace of the self in the other > direction. Instead, balance is achieved by dismissing both extreme > attachments. > > "Zen Buddhists talk about "just sitting," a > meditative practice in which the idea of a > duality of self and object does not dominate > one's consciousness. What I'm talking about here > in motorcyele maintenance is "just fixing," in > which the idea of a duality of self and object > doesn't dominate one's consciousness. When one > isn't dominated by feelings of separateness from > what he's working on, then one can be said to > "care" about what he's doing. That is what caring > really is, a feeling of identification with what > one's doing. When one has this feeling then he > also sees the inverse side of caring, Quality > itself. ... So the thing to do when working on a > motorcycle, as in any other task, is to cultivate > the peace of mind which does not separate one's > self from one's surroundings. " (ZMM) I've already commented on this passage where the self is acknowledged as real. ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
