[Bo]
> Hi Heather (Am I finally allowed to speak to you?)
Yes you may. You are worthy enough to now...
hahahah just kidding.
I never said you couldn't speak to me. I was
just commenting upon some of your posts. I wasn't
looking for a discussion up to this point. You could
have commented back, and I would have left it at that.
> Heather:
Bo, Heather is my wife. I go by SA (Spiritual
Adirondack).
[SA previously]
> > Your so stuck on this intellectual definition. He
> brings up China to
> > show that culture influenced Descartes "I think
> therefore I am", thus,
> > Pirsig says if Descartes would have said, "'The
> seventeenth century
> > French culture exists, therefore I think,
> therefore I am,' he would
> > have been correct."
[Bo]
> Agree (except about stuckness) culture influences
> its members.
fair enough.
[SA previously]
> > In China Descartes would not have been a big hit
> to pass down such a
> > saying through the ages, thus Pirsig says,
> "(would) China have listened
> > to him and called him a brilliant thinker and
> recorded his name in
> > history?" Pirsig is comparing cultures and the
> people and their
> > intellectual patterns cultivated from such
> cultures during this quote
> > of yours. Why your "obviously" I've got no clue?
[Bo]
> If any culture is "social value" and its outlook is
> "intellectual
> value" the MOQ is nil and void.
What do you mean by "its outlook"?
[Bo]
> If so ancient mythologies were
> "intellectual" and that's patently wrong, that era
> was social
> VALUE through and through.
This has been a hang-up during moq discussions.
I'm not hung-up on this issue, and apparently your not
hung-up on the issue either, meaning, we both have
confident perspectives on the intellectual-social
distinction.
Where I see the intellectual pattern in ancient
cultures is those people that came up with the myths.
Those ancient folks that were creative under their own
accord used their noggin'. Now, the folks that
followed what the aristocrats, astronomers, and
shamans, etc... had to say about the world in a more
complete socialization process and mimicking behaviors
(role-modeling, etc...), these folks where valuing,
socially, what others came up with and they didn't
intellectualize or debate the programs, they just saw
these programs as what they did. It was their
society/culture.
I would say the contarians of, for example, some
Amerindian cultures, where brujo enough, intellectual
enough to not follow social values completely. They
didn't have teachers that much. They thought their
way through more often. Please, please I pray, don't
take this as an individual v. collective where
individual is intellectual and collective is social.
What I'm saying here is that cultures have contarians.
These people go against the grain, but I see the
culture allowing these contarians to play out their
roles in a certain way. Culture is still influencing
the kinds of contarians, so, these individuals are
never strictly individuals separated from society
doing whatever they want without culture having a say.
[SA previously]
> > Wow, this "conflict" and "hate" of yours? The
> > intellectual levels is not to destroy the social
> > level, remember?
[Bo]
> Why deny one of MOQ's major tenets, that of the
> level struggle?
> It enables us to avoid the dire consequence of
> "sawing over the
> branch we are sitting on". Yet, the conflict is not
> soluble. Death
> (Inorganic) will always be something life (Biology)
> struggles
> against. Biology's jungle law is what Society is a
> relief from and
> Social bigotry is what Intellect is freedom from.
I'm trying to point out that the levels don't
exclusively fight against each other. That would seem
to be chaotic. Some cooperation does exist. The
previous level is the foundation of the level this
previous level supports. I do notice the conflict, as
well. I'm saying it's not all conflict though.
[SA previously]
> > Bo, you stick with the moq? Wow, now that's so
> old-fashion. We threw
> > out the moq a long time ago. It was deemed wrong,
> charges were
> > pressed, and the jail term was set at 20 life
> sentences. The key was
> > thrown out, but it seems the moq has escaped, and
> your the only one
> > that sticks to the moq. Thank G-d for Bo!!!!
> Hip-hip-hooray!
[Bo]
> Sarcasm is wasted, I'm fascinated by the MOQ and
> can't stand to
> see its phenomenal explanatory power reduced to
> zero.
Notice the point in the comedy. Do you really
hold yourself as being on the 'high ground' or
'authority' of what the moq is all about?
woods,
SA
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