Ron, Krim, Gav ... Two threads here ... the excellent epiricism / radical / pure / SOMist / pragmatist debate ... making great strides DMB, Matt, DM .... keep it up.
But another voice lost ... Gav pointed out again the distinction between intelligence and intellect. For me, to resolve this, is a big part of the social / intellectual confusion. The Meerkats (and Bees and Ant-colonies) are great examples. We see them do intelligent things individually and socially, but does anyone of us believe they use any kind of intellectual reasoning to do them ? As Ron says, they do communicate, they do manipulate symbols semantically, but yet they still do not use "intellect". Are we any closer to the social / intellectual distinction ? Personally, I believe intellect is simply (at any point in time) the highest level of reasoning so far evolved, by which other forms of reasoning can be questioned (and judged inferior). For a long time SOMism (rightly or wrongly) held that role, even though other more enligtened forms of reasoning existed. The judgement of which form of intellect holds sway is essentially .. well ... social. Hence the problem. Acceptance ... of "imposition" of habit, by convention vs Questioning of ... anything and everything ... inlcuding habits of mind. = A sliding grey-scale from social to intellectual Ian On 11/10/07, Krimel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [Ron then] > Dogs, Primates, the meercats in "meercat manor" all exhibit communication > And reasonably complex social structure. Which implies a certain degree > Of symbol manipulation and subjective agreement. We humans exhibit the > Most complex forms but I'd hesitate to say we are the only species > That displays intellect. However crude. > > [Krimel now] > Ants "communicate" with chemical signals. Bees do the "waggle dance" and > putty nose monkeys have different alarm cries for leopards than eagles. They > even combine the two cries syntactically to signal time to move to a new > territory to forage. I would be as reluctant to call this "intellect" as I > would be to say that the Greeks invented "intellect" > > [ron then] > When intellect has yet to be defined sufficiently yes, it does create a > Lot Of confusion about what is meant by pre-intellect. The important part I > Feel Needs clarification is which way are we focusing to achieve a quality > awareness? Some impressions imply that it is to be found in > pre-intellect And replacing SOM with MOQ. We have demonstrated that SOM is > cultural As well as intellectual and is a huge contributing factor in how we > Perceive reality. > > [Krimel now] > I don't think we need to focus on intellect to find Quality awareness. This > Quality awareness is rooted in biology and modified through experience but > it does not require intellect to be expressed or for that matter to be > suppressed. In other words Quality awareness is not something that needs to > be achieved. It just is. > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
