Hi Krim You seem to be talkingright past me. No problem with your points about knowledge and communities. You seem to entirely miss my point about the creative aspect of science and culture, its dependence on imagination to move from individual experience to grasp alternative perspectives and a world that transcends the limitations of what we can experience as finite individuals.
Just think of Einstein's crucial thought experiments. Thanks David M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Krimel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 5:51 PM Subject: Re: [MD] subject/object: pragmatism > DM > Yet still interchangeable I'd suggest, we could cut your hand off > (for arguments's sake) and then it could be experienced like your glove. > > [Krimel] > I think not interachangable. I experience my attached hand subjectively > and > my detached hand objectively. The quality of these two kinds of experience > is distinct. > > [DM] > As for objectivity, it is something we use our imagination to construct > from > experience, we imagine others are like ourselves, that our house does not > cease to exist when we are elsewhere, etc. These imaginings are useful and > good ideas, in fact essential to make any sense of experience. > > [Krimel] > The key word in the construction of "objectivity" is We. Without others > there is no need for such a conception or such constructions. There has > been > talk about Descartes' Cogito recently as though his Cogito has anything > whatever to do with SOM or the Mind body problem. Pirsig misses the point > entirely when he says, "If Descartes had said, 'The seventeenth-century > French culture exists, therefore I think, therefore I am,' he would have > been correct." > > Descartes was grasping for a straw, any straw of certainty that could be > found in the vast sea of patterns. I would say he found one, perhaps the > only one. Perhaps, it is surprising to find even one. But to talk about > French culture is to talk about the nature of "I". The existence of "I" is > shaky enough and from that starting point of certainty, we drift > immediately > back into the flux of probability. When we consider the nature of "I" we > can > only speculate, imagine and compare notes. > > [DM] > Our ability to extend our imaginings is what we call science and culture. > > [Krimel] > We construct the world around us based on shared understanding. In the > good > old days; in the environment that we adapted in genetically; we shaped our > shared understanding to fit with naturally occurring phenomena. (That is > Culture) > > As we began to share our understanding across generations through writing, > we began to shape naturally occurring phenomena to fit our shared > understanding. (That is Science) > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
