> [Platt]
> About James' pragmatism, Pirsig wrote: "The idea that satisfaction
alone is
> the test of anything is very dangerous, according to the Metaphysics
of
> Quality. There are different kinds of satisfaction and some of them
are
> moral nightmares. The Holocaust produced a satisfaction among Nazis.
That
> was quality for them. They considered it to be practical. But it was a
> quality dictated by low level static social and biological patterns
whose
> overall purpose was to retard the evolution of truth and. Dynamic
Quality.
> James would probably have been horrified to find that Nazis could use
his
> pragmatism just as freely as anyone else, but Phaedrus didn't see
anything
> that would prevent it." (Lila, 29) Do you agree?
>
> Ron:
> Greetings Platt,
> I would think Pirsig might be horrified that one could use his Moq
> Just as freely as anyone else also.
>
> Put a tag on morals and you do just the same as the Nazis.
[Platt}
Greetings Ron,
Sorry, I don't follow you. What "tag" are you referring to?
[Ron]
Names
> Morals are a function of evolution. You seem to imply the reification
of
> Cultural norms as being a universal truth.
[Platt]
Whose cultural norms are you referring to? There are almost as many
cultural norms as there are cultures
[Ron]
Exactly, so "Good" can mean as many things as cultures to value it.
.
> The Nazi final solution was not embraced by all of the party, but,
> The hierarchal structure and the consequence played a role
> As well as the individuals faith in the hierarchy to determine
> "what is best"
[Platt]
If you are referring to the hierarchy of the German society under the
Nazis, I agree.
> Example:
> You support a president that favors war
> Counter to cultural morals
> Because of the belief in what's best
> And the faith in the hierarchy.
[Platt]
Didn't most of those now opposed to the war support it at the beginning?
Since when is war counter to cultural morals? Or the MOQ?
[Ron]
I'm talking general principle not specifics. Our culture in particular,
the
American flavor of western culture, is based in Christian ethic. Which
Promotes pacifism and love thy enemy.
> You favor capitalism which is
> Counter to Christian ethics and morals
> Of charity to the poor.
[Platt]
Capitalism has done more to erase poverty than any other economic system
in history. Doesn't the MOQ favor capitalism over socialism? Where in
the
MOQ do you find support for "turn the other cheek," "my brother's
keeper"
and other Christian ideals?
[Ron}
I would correct that statement by adding that capitalists have done much
To erase poverty and promote public works, individuals with Christian
Cultural ethic. Capitalism as an institution is the attainment of
monetary
Wealth through free trade. Nothing more. Jesus tells us to renounce
Worldly possessions.
As far as MoQ having any cultural ethic it only has what the individual
Brings to it.
> The deceit of the nationalist party
> Was preparing the stage to justify
> It's own brand of pragmatism.
> Lets not get practical quality and justifiable
> Genocide confused.
[Platt]
Do you think Pirsig was confused in making the statement above?
[Ron]
No, I think he was trying to make a point about justifying concepts
Of "good" and "true" but in the application in which you were applying
The quote it was not necessarily the way he was making that statement.
> Quality is not universal truth
> Morality is not universal truth
> Morals are a process not a truth.
[Platt}
Since in the MOQ Quality, morality and reality are all the same, I would
conclude that -- to Pirsig at least -- Quality is about as close to
universal truth as you can get.
[Ron}
Close but not it. For it is an individual experience. His Quality is not
our
Quality, Pirsigs Quality may only be known by Pirsig. He leads us to the
path Of discovering our own quality.
> Morality is the process of preference.
> What determines what one prefers is another
> Thing altogether.
[Platt]
Agree. In effect the MOQ says that "the process of preferences" created
the
world and maintains its structure.
> Truth is a term used to define a relative level
> Of certainty within a particular context as it
> Applies to its use.
[Platt]
Agree except "as it applies to its use" (pragmatism). Some things are
true
that have no use at all.
[Ron}
You know, I was really giving this one some thought and I was
Having a hell of a time coming up with something that was true
That had no use for anyone. Still thinking...
> Quality, morals, truth, and betterness
> Do not exist outside the conditions which
> Define them.
> Pirsig uses the term Moral as a metaphor
> For an evolutionary function of preference.
> Not a culturally defined ideal of good.
[Platt]
Agree in general, but according to the MOQ hierarchy of morals, some
cultures are better than others. "Cultures are not the source of all
morals, only a limited set of morals. Cultures can be graded and judged
morally according to their contribution to the evolution of life."
(Lila,
24)
{Ron]
Ahh, judged by whom? By what criterion?
I'd venture the answer by the individual themselves.
Regards,
Platt
Always a pleasure Platt,
-Ron
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