Ron, Bo and all MOBers: John J. Stuhr, the editor of "Pragmatism and Classical American Philosophy" says, “In beginning to understand his view, it cannot be overemphasized that Dewey is not using the word ‘experience’ in its conventional sense. For Dewey, experience is not to be understood in terms of the experiencing subject, or as the interaction of a subject and object that exist separate from their interaction. Instead, Dewey’s view is radically empirical” (PCAP 437). Stuhr further explains that in this radically empirical view, “experience is an activity in which subject and object are unified and constituted as partial features and relations within this ingoing, unanalyzed unity”.
As Dewey himself says in “The Need for a Recovery of Philosophy”, this problem only “exists because it is assumed that there is a knower in general, who is outside of the world to be known, and who is defined in terms antithetical to the traits of the world” (PCAP 449). Or, as William James puts it in “A World of Pure Experience”, “the first great pitfall from which a radical standing by experience will save us is an artificial conception of the relations between knower and known. Throughout the history of philosophy the subject and its object have been treated as absolutely discontinuous entities” and their relations have “assumed a paradoxical character which all sorts of theories had to be invented to overcome” (PCAP 184). Or, as the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (http://plato.stanford.edu/) says in their article on James, he “set out the metaphysical view most commonly known as ‘neutral monism’, according to which there is one fundamental ‘stuff’ that is neither material nor mental” (SEP 2). Gents, how many times and how many ways do I have to say it? These quotes, from four different philosophers, demonstrate in unequivocal terms that we are NOT prisoners to SOM. Obviously, James and Dewey are directly attacking SOM and the commentators see them that way too. I really don't understand why you feel the need to dismiss this or explain it away. Why shouldn't MOQers be thrilled that Pirsig has company in this? Seriously. Why? Oh, never mind. I give up. I can't MAKE you think otherwise. All I can do is show you and I've already done that too many times. Sigh. dmb P.S. Yes, these quotes were copied from my word processor. If the text is messy, that's why. ---------------------------------------- > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:22:55 -0500 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [MD] Mindless Metaphysics > > Dmb: > James and Dewey are non-SOM philosophers and that's my main point. > Their work is proof that there are non-SOM alternatives at the > intellectual level. > > Ron: > The angle is that they are SOM philosophers, they were born and bred in > western culture, they use English, a subject object case language to > describe non-analytic alternatives. They project a paradigm outside > Of the cultural normative thought structure, James and Dewey offer > Radical inclusion to analytic empirical method. They contend that no > Data is strictly objective and factual, It is all colored by cultural > And personal bias. > It is the realization that we can not trust ourselves to objectively > Evaluate any data absolutely, we may however reduce error by applying > A radical empiricism. > It is a refinement of SOM methods, it is truer via James own convictions > Of any new idea's test is the compatibility with former ideas. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista(r) + Windows > Live(tm). > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_ > CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_012008 > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ _________________________________________________________________ Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
