DMB, Ron, Moqtalkers On 16 Jan.
DMB: > Ahhh, now we are having a conversation gentlemen. Bravo and thank you. Ron had said: > > ...here's the issue: Bo maintains by these statements that for all > > practical intent and purpose, SOM represents the intellectual level as > > per our culture. Thanks Ron but no thanks, this leads into the wilderness of other cultures having other "intellectual levels". The 4th. level is the S/O distinction be it in the Occident, the Orient or on a farthest planet in the galaxy. For coparancy: Life (biology) may not be cabon-based in other inorganic settings, but will still be the 2nd. static level nevertheless. > dmb says: > I'd say you've softened Bo's claim here but it's still not soft > enough. No "soft" SOL thanks. > Weird things happen when the 4th level is equated with SOM. I think > it's important to construe intellect as larger and more open-ended than > Bo's claim would allow. One of the weirdest things it does is make the > MOQ impossible. It says that intellect MUST use the analytic knife in > one particular way. You are "DuMB" but still in a league of your own ;-) It's no secret that the static levels are static for the reason of NOT being open- ended, they stick jealously to their master-patterns. As Pirsig shows the chance of life emerging from matter is nil and yet it did. Society emergence from biology is just as improbable as is intellect's from society, yet it happened. MOQ's rise above intellect (and here a level-like aspect shows) is also improbable, and your frenetic effort to refute the SOL is intellect's tentacles firmly holding you in place. > The MOQ is the prime example. It cuts things up differently and thereby > proves that intellect isn't so trapped. See, Bo's claims strike at the > very heart of what the MOQ is and does. Yes, the MOQ cuts differently, but then again .... The totality can't fit into one of it's own compartments. Have you squandered your sense of logic just to refute me? Remember the container example. > It's no accident that he has to disagree with Pirsig in order to > maintain it. Yes, I disagree with LILA - at times - not so much with ZAMM. Pirsig would have been superhuman to place all pieces in their correct place in this gigantic puzzle, while we who can sit on his shoulders may see a bit farther. > But if we soften it up, - way, way up - it only means that the dominant > worldview is dominant. As SA said, "western culture isn't exclusively > an s/o intellect. It may have become dominant, and the dominant does > hold the microphone." As said no softening up please, Either the 4th. level is the entire S/O or nothing at all. Ron may be sympathetic, but his is some Metaphysics of Culture. Bo Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
