Ron said to dmb:
I have no argument with your quotes, they do Attack SOM they also offer
solutions within the context. But it's within The context. I'm not
dismissing it or explaining it away, I acknowledge It as what it is. But
as long as we live in SOM culture use SOM language And intellectualize
about SOM as a concept, we are trapped in SOM.
dmb says:
Well, if you think we are trapped in SOM then you are certainly
dismissing those quotes. Or maybe it's just that you don't quite
understanding what they mean. My point here is to refute the idea that
SOM and intellect are equal to each other, that we are trapped in it.
Nobody denies that SOM is part of the language or culture. As I've said
many times, those distinctions are useful and appropriate most of the
time. The point James, Dewey and Pirsig make is simply that we ought not
confuse these concepts with reality itself.
Ron:
What one sees is dictated by what one understands, if a man is in the
African veldt and a jeep drives up and he gets in and the jeep drives
off
That's what we see. If a bushman sees the very same thing his reality is
That he saw a man get swallowed up by a great metal beast which ran off.
Which reality is more true? Perception is reality Dave.
Culture dictates how the individual fills in the gaps
In understanding.
DmB:
These concepts have been given existential status by materialists and
idealists alike. They have been reified by philosophers, made into a
metaphysical reality rather than just a handy abstraction. That's the
mistake. James, Dewey and Pirsig offer an alternative intellectual
description that treat subjects and objects as secondary rather than
primary.
Ron:
Agreed they are ways to understand reality not reality themselves.
Culture likewise is a way to understand reality not reality itself. got
it.
But how do we shed the understanding of reality? It is perception
itself.
DmB:
This is me not giving up on you. ;-)
As far as I can tell, however, topos theory has nothing to do with this.
Ron:
No, this does not have anything to do with Topos, but radical
Empiricist method does. It is Radical empiricism logically expressed.
I thought it would tickle your toes in particular.
Thanks for hangin in there with me Dave, I'm enjoying the exchange.
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