Folks, DMB is right, but Gav, (with Bo now agreeing with him) are subtly but importantly wrong ...
Yes, symbolic manipulation of the (virtual) world is what intellect is about, and language has a lot to do with that manipulation. And as DMB correctly points out, that involves using the analytic knife to carve up that virtual / mental space into the things being symbolized and manipulated (talked about). Those things do not have to be GOF Subjects and Objects - we can apply any conceptual model we choose - a monism if we prefer. Ian On 1/16/08, Heather Perella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ron says: > > Dave, as per the above statements we are on the same > > page, different > > Paragraphs perhaps but the same page non-the-less, > > here's the issue: > > Bo maintains by these statements that for all > > practical intent and purpose, > > SOM represents the intellectual level as per our > > culture. > > > SA: Ron, Bo denies this cultural perspective that > your trying to make. Also, The broad-edged sword of > cultural dominance has for some time, seen 'things' as > black or white, your either this or that. Yet, > western culture isn't exclusively an s/o intellect. > It may have become dominant, and the dominant does > hold the microphone. > > > > Ron: And as you Posit that Dewey James and Pirsig > project an > > intellectual framework > > different From it. Now MoQ and SOM differ in the > > fact that SOM is > > embedded in the culture while MoQ is not, not yet > > anyway. > > Here lies the paradigm shift from speaking about the > > levels in general > > Evolutionary terms and speaking of them in > > culturally specific terms. > > > SA: I would say Bo speaks of the levels as culturally > specific terms or historical timelines that are > delineated by each level. This is Comte's view of > history. Thus, why I say Bo view is kin to Comte's > view. I see the dominant view of the moq, at least on > this forum at the moment, that the moq levels are more > general evolutionary terms and they also help > distinguish morals. Is this what you mean by > 'evolutionary terms' and culturally specific terms'? > > > Ron: Dave, I'm not an SOL salesman, I'm just trying > to > > sort out the mess. I guess the main point is > > That SOM was not aware that it was an intellectual > > pattern and took > > It for reality itself the culture takes it as > > reality itself. MoQ > > realizes it is an intellectual pattern > > And includes this knowledge in it's body. It leaves > > the metaphysic open > > to the dynamic. > > > SA: Yes, as long as s/o isn't the only intellectual > pattern as Bo proclaims, then I see where your coming > from and agree. Intellectual patterns are the > metaphysics, as well as, the other levels are the > metaphysics and dq is the metaphysics, therefore, the > moq can't be lived out only as intellectual patterns. > > > Ron: This aspect alone sets it above all > > other intellectual patterns. Now before you go > pointing to Tao and > > Hinduism, I must point > > out that MoQ retains scientific method and a host of > > other SOM qualities > > that have bore the fruit of our modern world. > > as far as I'm aware historically this is something > > of a first for humanity > > and the dawning of a new age of possibility. > > > SA: When we look back it may seem history is > stationary and static, and thus, in terms of > historical perspective what happened in science may > need to be explained as SOM guided, but I find that as > we look back a better historical perspective of > science, even before the moq, we will find science was > actually guided by quality, and the metaphysics is > here now to explain it this way. > > > > I've got to go, > SA > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
