It needs to be considered that the rather radical beliefs expressed (such as the ones you quoted) could have possibly been advocated when the Islamic faith was under threat of being wiped out, and so to preserve the tradition, radical elements had to be installed and put to effect. As an example, following the Muslim invasions in India, the rules of the caste system underwent considerable changes, only to preserve the purity of the people.
An interesting point of debate would be thus: do not religions based primarily on the teachings of one man stand on terribly slippery ground? Why did the world need a Jesus Christ or a Mohammed to be born into the world and to save the world? Was it not unfair to generations of human living before Jesus, to not have the supposed salvation (because of their lack of knowledge of his teachings)? Why would the Christian or the Islamic religion, if it really is the highest truth, be in such a mortal framework, that it had to be confined to one supposedly perfect man, who was born a long time after humanity began on planet earth? This is not intended in any offensive or derogatory sense, but as a mere point to ponder upon. I respect the sentiments of fellow members. Akshay On 24/01/2008, Akshay Peshwe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From what I have observed in my decade-long stay in Arabia, there are vast > differences from nation to nation (or rather, sect to sect, because a nation > can have varying percentages of populations from different sects) as to how > Islam is practised. One thing is sure and that is that the way Islam is > practised today is hopelessly out of alignment with what Mohammed taught > many centuries ago. If Islamic leaders occupy themselves with the task of > realigning Islam with what Mohammed taught, then it would perhaps be able to > deserve being called a system of civilisation. > > There are very few Islamic countries today which are liberal towards other > religions. The Sultanate of Oman is a great example, where the king, Sultan > Qaboos bin Said, has been kind enough to allow the setting up of Hindu > temples and Christian churches, even financing them a fair deal. But other > states, such as Saudi Arabia, have a pathetic record of religious tolerance. > > > A religion of peace is supposed to have tolerance and non-violence towards > other religions. Islam, especially as seen from an international perspective > (let alone the American perspective), does not qualify for such a noble > title. > > On another note, if Islamic scholars (especially of the medieval times) > are to be believed (Alberuni is an example, who wrote Indika), then it is > clear that all of Islamic science is a dull borrowing of Hindu science. > > Akshay > > > > > > > On 24/01/2008, Steve Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hi Joe, > > > > Joe said: > > > Islam, a religion of peace, has been influenced by the 'fakir' > > > dedication > > > in the East, from which most esoteric traditions spring. > > > > Steve: > > On what basis do you say that Islam is a religion of peace? Below I > > supplied evidence that it is not. The Amish and Jainism seem > > peaceful, but Christianity, Islam, and Judaism do not. > > > > > > Steve Previously: > > >> Is > > >> Islam a religion of peace as we are so often told and as liberals > > >> seem so > > >> inclined to believe? The following quotes (copied and pasted from > > >> what looked > > >> like a nutty Christian website) from the Koran represent some of > > >> the beliefs > > >> that many say must be respected in the name of tolerance: > > >> > > >> "Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than > > >> carnage...Fight > > >> against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns > > >> supreme." > > >> (Surah 2:190-) > > >> > > >> "Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah > > >> 2:216) > > >> > > >> "Men are tempted [in this life] by the lure of women...far better > > >> is the > > >> return of God. Say: 'Shall I tell you of better things than these, > > >> with which > > >> the righteous shall be rewarded by their Lord? Theirs shall be > > >> gardens watered > > >> by running streams, where they shall dwell for ever: wives of perfect > > >> chastity..." (Surah 3:14, 15) > > >> > > >> "The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19) > > >> > > >> "Believers, do not make friends with any but your own > > >> people...They desire > > >> nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When > > >> they meet you > > >> they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their > > >> finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119) > > >> > > >> "If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His > > >> forgiveness and His > > >> mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-) > > >> > > >> "To those that declare: 'God has commanded us to believe no > > >> apostle unless he > > >> brings down fire to consume an offering,' say: 'Other apostles > > >> before me > > >> [Muhammad] have come to you with veritable signs and worked the > > >> miracle you > > >> asked for...If they reject you [Muhammad], other apostles have > > >> been rejected > > >> before you..." (Surah 3:183-) > > >> > > >> "If you wish to replace a wife with another, do not take from her > > >> the dowry > > >> you have given her..." (Surah 4:20) > > >> > > >> "Forbidden to you are...married women, except those you own as > > >> slaves." (Surah > > >> 4:20-, 24-) > > >> > > >> "Believers, do not approach your prayers when you are drunk, but > > >> wait till you > > >> can grasp the meaning of your words..." (Surah 4:43) > > >> > > >> "Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-) > > >> > > >> "Try as you may, you cannot treat all your wives > > >> impartially." (Surah 4:126-) > > >> > > >> "The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His > > >> loved ones.' > > >> Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah 5:18) > > >> > > >> "Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your > > >> friends." (Surah 5:51) > > >> > > >> "The God will say: 'Jesus, son of Mary, did you ever say to > > >> mankind 'Worship > > >> me and my mother as gods besides God?' 'Glory to You, 'he will > > >> answer, 'how > > >> could I ever say that to which I have no right?" (Surah 5:114-) > > >> > > >> "Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not > > >> turn your > > >> backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to > > >> them, except > > >> it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and > > >> Hell shall be > > >> his home..." (Surah 8:12-) > > >> > > >> "Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion > > >> shall reign > > >> supreme." (Surah 8:36-) > > >> > > >> "If you fear treachery from any of your allies, you may fairly > > >> retaliate by > > >> breaking off your treaty with them." (Surah 8:51-) > > >> > > >> "...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God > > >> will chastise > > >> them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over > > >> them..." > > >> (Surah 9:12-) > > >> > > >> "It ill becomes the idolaters [non-Muslims] to visit the mosques > > >> of God..." > > >> (Surah 9:17) > > >> > > >> "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given > > >> [Jews and > > >> Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly > > >> subdued." > > >> (Surah 9:27-) > > >> > > >> "It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the > > >> true Faith > > >> [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the > > >> idolaters > > >> [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-) > > >> > > >> "If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you > > >> by other > > >> men." (Surah 9:37-) > > >> > > >> "Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal > > >> rigorously > > >> with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73) > > >> > > >> "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal > > >> firmly with > > >> them." (Surah 9:121-) > > >> > > >> "Say: 'Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no > > >> partner in > > >> His Kingdom..." (Surah 17:111) > > >> > > >> "'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a > > >> virgin...?' > > >> 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult > > >> thing for > > >> Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those > > >> who say: > > >> 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous > > >> falsehood..." > > >> (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88) > > >> > > >> "Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has > > >> given you > > >> the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:78-) > > >> > > >> "Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires > > >> (except with > > >> their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These > > >> are the > > >> heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-) > > >> > > >> "You shall not force your slave-girls into prostitution in order > > >> that you make > > >> money, if they wish to preserve their chastity." (Surah 24:33-) > > >> > > >> "As for the faithful who do good works and believe what is > > >> revealed to > > >> Muhammad...He will forgive them their sins..." (Surah 47:1) > > >> > > >> "Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the > > >> unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29) > > >> > > >> "Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed > > >> virgins > > >> sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions > > >> and fine > > >> carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-) > > >> > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
