Steve and Moqbabblers.,
On 17 Jan. Peterson wrote:
> Does the MOQ oppose dogmatic religion? I would say that since the
> "truths" of religion are to be accepted on faith, social institutions
> such as religions are an example of a social pattern attempting to
> devour an intellectual one. What do you think?
Dogmatic religions - Judaism and its offshoots - are social
patterns, but in themselves they aren't "an attempt to devour
intellectual patterns", rather attempts to control BIOLOGICAL
value. The social lever is infinitely older than the intellectual.
However, the conflict known as "Islam vs the West" is intellect
trying to suppress social value. This mission is completed in the
Occident, but intellect presses relentlessly on into the Middle East
where social values still dominates.
However, no level knows being a value level, this context is only
visible from the MOQ and from there intellect's mission is a moral
movement, but I wonder what a realization of the said level
context will mean for intellect's struggle. The MOQ will probably
have some hampering effect on intellect. Remember the
"campus talks" in LILA about intellect joining forces with biology
to quench society. Will the MOQ "join forces" with Society to
quench intellect?
In Pirsig's presentation it looks very much as if MOQ's mission is
to save society from intellect's anti-social tendencies (LILA).
It's this intellectual pattern of amoral "objectivity" that is to
blame for the social deterioration of America, because it
has undermined the static social values necessary to
prevent deterioration. In its condemnation of social
repression as the enemy of liberty, it has never come
forth with a single moral principle that distinguishes a
Galileo fighting social repression from a common criminal
fighting social repression. It has, as a result, been the
champion of both. That's the root of the problem
"This intellectual pattern" is SOM, but IMO it's impossible to
single out one particular intellectual pattern as guilty of
undermining one social pattern. ALL of intellect undermines ALL
of society. The said "deterioration of America" was a sixty-
seventies phenomenon and mostly in New York that a new "non-
tolerance" police regime straightened out. Yet Pirsig is right,
intellectual value's mission is to control social value and in so
doing it often overshoots the target an creates social insecurity.
Steven ctd:
> Do religious beliefs need to be "respected" in some way since the
> intellectual level's evolution depends on the social level?
>From inside the said semitic religions (=a social pattern) it looks
as if God is the social guarantor and if belief in Him is
undermined by atheism (=an intellectual pattern) society will
collapse. This is the reason for the said Islam vs West conflict,
the islamists fear that Western "values" of woman's lib and
sexual license will overwhelm their stable social traditions.
This is true, but not necessarily a catastrophe. Oriental tradition
of Confucianism combined with Taoism has worked perfectly for
millenniums as society's base and the intellectual level (SOM)
never grew strong enough to start undermining this configuration
before a Quality-like development evolved to check intellect's
destructive development. Thus - to answer your question if
"religious beliefs need to be respected?" Not at all, The west
should instead develop a Christendom more like Taoism or
Buddhism.
IMO
Bo
PS,
The Koran "suras" are just a little worse than some of the old
Testament's verses, and surely just as bloodthirsty as the Jewish
"Tora".
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