SA: Here's a question. Do you think ideas are free enough that they live without human control to a certain degree? I'll try to put this into context. We've heard of the example of feral children. They are more biological, not even very social. So, it would seem humans can live without ideas, though this would be missing out on a lot. Also, ideas are emphasized in the human realm more than any other creature on the planet that we know about.
Ron: I have no argument with biological level thinking And understanding, but what separates us from the beasts And what defines us distinctly as human beings is the Intellectual level. I agree that inorganic, organic, Biological and social play roles in its composition And emerge in the intellectual level as urges driving Complex Thoughts and feelings. The ability to creatively Manipulate and image complex symbols as thoughts and ideas Is a uniquely human trait. There have been times (shamefully) That I woke up after getting drunk and stoned at a party Just coming out of a sleep that I had trouble figuring out for a moment Just what it was I was awaking to, a pile like a blanket looked like A face, then it moved, then I recognized it was the body of someone Who passed out next to me. Then I become aware of where I'm at and how I came to be there and what had transpired to orient myself to the situation Intellect clicking in, there have been times when I have nightmares That I can't get a grasp of what's going on, I'm trapped temporarily In a state of blind fear half awake and half asleep until intellect can Kick in and tell me that it's O.K. but it's difficult to override the biological level thought patterns and chemistry coursing through my body. I work constantly at diverting and controlling these situations through Intellectual level concepts of altering biological cues and patterns I respond to how I interpret them and how I respond to them by re structuring the associated patterns. Yes SA I'm Quite aware of this level of thought, MoQ is helping me Re-pattern . SA: Yet, don't you think ideas seem parasitic, not in the usually bad, sickly understanding of parasites, but they live on and come at you in society and you just have to deal with them. Whatever the current ideas are in your social circle these ideas will come at you, and you must deal with them and how you deal with them is based on the thought system you currently hold. I guess what I'm getting at is the idea that thoughts can be moq-isolated (by this I'm trying to avoid the usually baggage that comes with the concept isolation. By this term, I'm referring to the focus-field understanding. Where isolation is a focus amidst a larger field of experience, any questions please ask.). Thoughts can be moq-isolated, meaning, thoughts, though dependent upon humans on this planet for what we know, thoughts seem to have the ability to work on their own and we, as people, as this biological and social organism, can view how the current sphere of thoughts we are in contact with, to a certain degree, these thoughts control us. Ian, this might fit in with your definition of memes. Ron: > all evolution to the individual human experience. > This is what I was > talking about. All I can ever know about anything is > through my own > senses, experiences, thoughts and perceptions, which > to attain an even > higher moral standard per MoQ levels is to focus on > my own immediate > experience. SA: I agree to a certain degree, for I'm part of a larger event that has much more to do than what I'm aware of. Instead of putting the focus on this tiny human skeleton, I quite easy can see how I'm tapped into something larger this skin and bones. I'm more a tree branch and the rest of the cosmos is the the much larger tree I'm connected to. So, instead of taking possession of this universe and saying it is only according to what I know, it's more conceivable to me to state that this universe dictates everything about me. Do we point at a tree branch and say the tree branch possess its' own way of life or can we step back and notice that the tree itself possesses the tree branch? Ron: >From most of our conversations you know pretty much Where I'm at as far as the concept of the big picture, I don't think I ever made any bones about my beliefs Of connectedness, this is why Hams Essentialism Interested me. I'm with you so far. Carlos Castaneda Called it the great sea of awareness. SA: Please stick with me on this, and let's discuss our view points. Maybe you'll understand mine, and I your's. Ron: I think we've always been on the same page, it's the expression of ideas that gets tricky. Misinterpretation (of which I am guilty of frequently) occurs Often when the finer intricacies of MoQ are discussed. Thank you for your patience. ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! 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