Hi Arlo ... inserted [IG] On 2/26/08, Arlo Bensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [Ian] > I have no problem also accepting that the intellect of western > culture owes something to it's christian culture... > > [Arlo] > Well, of course the totality of our intellect derives from the social > culture from which it emerges. To think otherwise is to buy into the > "myth of independence" Pirsig talks about in LILA. And, of course, > part of this culture involves the various religions and belief > systems of its history. Indeed, I guess you could argue that if S/O > metaphysics started in ancient Greece, and the European Church > absorbed Christianity through this Hellenic lens, that one of the > problems with Western Christianity has been its unspoken S/O firmament. > > I am curious, though, what do you think western culture owes to > christian culture? I'd say some of our most inspired art (paintings, > music, architecture, etc.). What would you add?
[IG] Well as I also said, not sure I wanted to debate detail here once we've accepted the fact - but if you were really curious, we could start with "What did the Greeks ever do for us ?" "What did the Romans ever do for us ?" "What did the Christians / Moslems ever do for us ?" "What did the Victorians ever do for us ?" "What did the NASA Moonshot ever do for us ?" [IG] For our culture generally - an endless list. Praising god by building cathedrals, advancing engineering technology, evolving spandrells, and so on. And you could follow that line allegorically for all of those "misguided" projects above - I'm from the Ready, Fire, Aim camp of - do something, anything creative, and turn it into something of net benefit. [IG] Specifically Theist Religion for Western intellect ? Even that is a list greater than zero surely ? One set of examples - surely even in philosophy those working in the name of their gods contributed to our body of knowledge - Ibn Rushd, Avicenna, Aquinas, Descartes, Spinoza to name a few ... even though their conclusions led in different directions, they were asking their god-centred questions, for god-motivated reasons, bless 'em. Shoulders of giants. > > [Ian] > Whilst I cannot imagine the word "all" being used, I can imagine > "some" and later "much" and so on ... > > [Arlo] > I don't think "Some of this is just an analogy" carries the same > metaphysical weight. Indeed, the trouble with this is that the "some" > will of course be "the quaint myths of others". [IG] Well yes, but these become the specifics to debate / analyse / test, rather than simply reacting with the generality - theists, a pox on all their houses. > > [Ian] > ... there will be a significant "mystical" and "mythical" component > wherever this leads - which I'm guessing is your "Campbellian" > reference maybe ? > > [Arlo] > Yes, this is where the next step should take us. As I said in my > exchange with Khaled, I am of two minds (a cynical one and an > optimistic one) about the possibility of this ever occurring. Where > are those hippies when you need them? [IG] Being in two minds is good, better than dogma. Paranoia is par for the course, a large dose of uncertainty, healthy. Reality is a mix of hope and hypocrisy. Let's make the best of it - find the "cash" value, like good little pragmatists. Now I'm preaching ;-) > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
