Chris:
> I have nothing against Zen. I practice Zen. I will
> not talk about it,
> because as Pirsig put it: Everything you say about
> Zen is a lie. I might say
> that Zen is a way of getting closer to Dynamic
> Quality, but it wouldn't be
> right. No words should be added. No thoughts. The
> MOQ is a thought system,
> and thus just as far from (and as close to) Zen as
> anything else.
SA: Where does Pirsig say talking about Zen is a
"lie'? Static patterns are evil compared to dynamic
quality, but static patterns are moral and good unto
themselves. It is in the comparison of static
patterns or to dq that something may be more moral
than something else, but this doesn't make what's less
more, totally evil. The world is good. Zen is a
thought system too. Reality is Quality. Isn't Zen in
this reality? I could talk about how I washed dishes
all day and could be more dynamic than sitting around
thinking all day and not doing anything.
Chris:
> But what I feel, is that if you wish to practice
Zen. Do. If
> you wish do develop the
> Metaphysics called MOQ - do. Nothing say's you
> can't do both. I do. See -
> this is why I don't want to talk about Zen, because
> if I now say, like I
> thought that "they are not the same" I would be
> lying, from a Zen point of
> view surely, and perhaps from a MOQ view as well.
> Just - just say that the
> MOQ is a Theory that we are all working on, and that
> may work as a Good theory.
SA: I didn't say Zen and the moq are the same. Words
are reality, but this too is an moq and Zen twist.
Chris:
> Try as I might, I can't say more.
SA: According to your logic and what this quote says
below, it would seem we might as well stop thinking,
close the forum, and cleanse ourselves of our sins,
but this is how you experience the world at the
moment, nothing wrong with this.
[Lila; Ch. 9]
"Dynamic Quality is the pre-intellectual cutting
edge of reality, the source of all things, completely
simple and always new. It was the moral force that had
motivated the brujo in Zuni. It contains no pattern of
fixed rewards and punishments. Its only perceived good
is freedom and its only perceived evil is static
quality itself - any pattern of one-sided fixed values
that tries to contain and kill the ongoing free force
of life."
SA continues: By the way, did you read those quotes I
sent in the last post? I know there were many, but I
found them helpful.
Here's one last quote in this post, in which I
find sums up this ordeal you seem to be having with
thoughts and words. It probably has to do with your
s/o intellect. Here's the quote:
[Lila; Ch. 9]
"During the next few months that Phasdrus
reflected he began to transpose the static-Dynamic
division out of the moral conflict of Zuni into other
seemingly unrelated areas. The negative esthetic
quality of the hot stove in the earlier example was
now given some added meaning by a static-Dynamic
division of Quality. When the person who sits on the
stove first discovers his low-Quality situation, the
front edge of his experience is Dynamic. He does not
think, 'This stove is hot,' and then make a rational
decision to get off. A 'dim perception of he knows not
what' gets him off Dynamically. Later he generates
static patterns of thought to explain the situation.
A subject-object metaphysics presumes that this kind
of Dynamic action without thought is rare and ignores
it when possible. But mystic learning goes in the
opposite direction and tries to hold to the ongoing
Dynamic edge of all experience, both positive and
negative, even the Dynamic ongoing edge of thought
itself. Phaedrus thought that of the two kinds of
students, those who study only subject-object science
and those who study only meditative mysticism, it
would be the mystic students who would get off the
stove first. The purpose of mystic meditation is not
to remove oneself from experience but to bring one's
self closer to it by eliminating stale, confusing,
static, intellectual attachments of the past."
keeping the intellect open,
SA
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
