Hi SA Trying to clarify now - see below > Chris: >> "Robert Pirsig : I have to say, generally speaking >> it is not good to talk >> about 'Zen' because Zen is nothingness and the more >> you talk about it the >> further away you go from it" >> from: >> http://www.robertpirsig.org/Observer%20Interview.htm > > SA: Sure. Also he talks about Zen too. It's really > both ways. It's not exclusively what you keep saying, > "Don't talk about Zen or your lying". Pirsig > recommends Zen. Recommends Zen books. States Zen has > ideas. I really don't think we need to keep bringing > up, Pirsig says this, and Pirsig says that, this is > easily understood by our own minds. If you know Zen, > then you can talk about Zen and know what is meant. > If you take this very literally, then you might as > well stop discussing on the forum. All this static > quality is evil according to dq's perspective. Yet, > static quality is good. I don't know what all the > hubbub - bub... is. > Chris: >> I thank you for your well meant intentions, but I >> have no "ordeal with >> thoughts and words." in that way. It's quite clear. > > > SA: It's not "quite clear". We can talk about Zen > and the moq. Why else are you on this forum? Are you > anti-intellectual? I'm sincerly asking you. It would > be best to know this upfront. > Also, if you commented on what I said and > quoted specifically, instead of generalizing back > without a one to one comment, then it seems your just > writing back preconceptions without actually reading > posts. At least, that's how it seems for the moment. > I'm asking for I'm truly a tiny skull anyways. >
Mh, yes. He also says later on that if you don't talk about it no one knows it's there. I'll say this now, for you, even though it is bad for me to write this: I know Zen, I can talk about Zen, I can even, If I want to incorporate Zen in my MOQ understanding of the world - I have to be able to incorporate everything in my MOQ understanding of the world, otherwise it wouldn't work. In my book then Zen would probably be social patterns laid down for people to gain complete Quality awareness, to erase all static patterns. Now I have written this down, but when I sit down to meditate, I can't believe this (or anything) to be true of Zen or it will elude me, but never mind that for a second. Why I don't like people to mystify the MOQ I have stated in another thread, "The mystification of the MOQ is in my book a regression of it. For the MOQ to work as it is intended everything has to be able to be incorporated in it and work just as well as it would without it - and hopefully better - this goes for science and all intellectual patterns as well. Now: you could make the MOQ anti-intellectual and say that intellectual patterns should be destroyed to open up to Quality, but to say so makes the MOQ a lower level thing. A social one. Because it is true that theorizing about the world was not necessary before the S/O thinking, and posed no problem, everything just was (The MOQ says that everything has always been Quality, but it has been interpreted differently). When the S/O thinking comes along this brings about the 4th level, and a problem in how people view the world. ZMM makes those problems quite clear. However - the MOQ aspires not to break down the SOM, but to change it, and, in a way to rule it, just as every new level rules a lower level. Within the MOQ all levels must be sustained (and they are!) but with the MOQ as the overall interpreter that brings harmony to all of it. Just as biology functions in society - but differently - in the same manner intellectual patterns will function - must function - in a MOQ ruled world. If intellectual patterns is not recognized that brings the MOQ down to the level of "simple religion" if you will excuse my words." So you can see I am not anti-intellectual at all. I want the MOQ to work. Regarding your quotes, I know them, and I like them. But what am I supposed to do with them? Think about them when I meditate? No, not that. Have them in mind when I discuss the MOQ? But I do! In my view of the MOQ everything is quality. Static and Dynamic. So what's the problem here? Friendly Chris Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
