Craig March 22.
Bo before: > > Gravity came to be with Newton Craig: > The LAW OF of gravity came to be with Newton. The Newton/Gravity talks in ZAMM was what really shook my foundations when I read it for the first time. The said passage is before he starts about Quality - but I knew that this wasn't going be an ordinary reading experience. And the example is so to say the Litmus test to determine if a person understands the Quality Idea, and I see that you fail the test. What Pirsig says, and repeats in another passage later on, is that theories create our interpretation of the sensory "data" and the data that things fall to the ground has surely been interpreted in many ways, I only know that the Greek Physics had some notion of things seeking rest and that can only be achieved on the ground. Your remark above is like John Sutherland's that gravity was there from eternity for Newton to find the rules/laws of. This is SOM's (intellect's) view, namely that there is an inert physical reality "out there" that the human mind can unravel the "laws" of. But SOM is what the MOQ transcends and (IMO) makes into its own 4th. level. So what's the use of faking an understanding of the MOQ when even this most basic example is rejected? > [Bo]: > > and Quality came to be with Pirsig > He was several billion years later. > Craig OK, but ZAMM says that gravity came to be with Newton, it follows that Quality came to be with Pirsig. And there is nothing weird about that, except having infinitely greater ramification. The problem is that people go on believing that mind and matter retain their metaphysical capacity inside the MOQ. But that is not so, inorganic patterns of value (IPV) isn't substance. Pirsig goes to great lengths to demonstrate how the said IPV don't violate Quantum Mech. while substance does. Consequently none of the Q-levels corresponds to anything in SOM. . Your: "He was several billion years later." supposedly says that the Quality is from infinity, and regrettably Pirsig of LILA did not observe his own insights in ZAMM, and wanted us to believe that Quality has always been and that the MOQ is the mere "law" (like in your remark that Gravity has always been but the LAW came with Newton) had Pirsig been consequent and said that the MOQ creates the Quality Reality and in that reality there is neither "man" or "man's mind" or "our consciousness" where ideas exist of which the MOQ is one, but that this is its intellectual level all puzzle pieces would have been in place. OK more of Bo's "how to make friends and influence people" technique. ;-) Bo Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
