Bo
> The Newton/Gravity talks in ZAMM was what really shook my
> foundations when I read it for the first time. The said passage is before
> he starts about Quality - but I knew that this wasn't going be an
> ordinary reading experience. And the example is so to say the Litmus
> test to determine if a person understands the Quality Idea, and I see
> that you fail the test.
You might as well face it, the only one to pass *your* test is you.
> What Pirsig says, and repeats in another passage later on, is that
> theories create our interpretation of the sensory "data" and the data
> that things fall to the ground has surely been interpreted in many ways,
> I only know that the Greek Physics had some notion of things seeking
> rest and that can only be achieved on the ground.
The keywords here are theories and interpretation. They imply
intellectual patterns, representations of the inorganic pattern
represented, in this case the law of gravity vs. gravity.
> Your remark above is like John Sutherland's that gravity was there
> from eternity for Newton to find the rules/laws of. This is SOM's
> (intellect's) view, namely that there is an inert physical reality "out
> there" that the human mind can unravel the "laws" of. But SOM is what
> the MOQ transcends and (IMO) makes into its own 4th. level.
Then how do *you* explain the fact that things did fall to the ground
before Newton? Our sun *did* ignite 5 billion years ago and the earth
and other planets have been circling it ever since.
Or did they start doing that when Newton invented gravity?
> OK, but ZAMM says that gravity came to be with Newton, it follows that
> Quality came to be with Pirsig. And there is nothing weird about that,
> except having infinitely greater ramification.
(And the little detail about the universe working exactly identical with
and without gravity...)
> The problem is that people
> go on believing that mind and matter retain their metaphysical capacity
> inside the MOQ. But that is not so, inorganic patterns of value (IPV)
> isn't substance. Pirsig goes to great lengths to demonstrate how the
> said IPV don't violate Quantum Mech. while substance does.
> Consequently none of the Q-levels corresponds to anything in SOM. .
This could be interesting. Please elaborate on how IPV don't violate QM.
> Your: "He was several billion years later." supposedly says that the
> Quality is from infinity, and regrettably Pirsig of LILA did not observe
> his own insights in ZAMM, and wanted us to believe that Quality has
> always been and that the MOQ is the mere "law" (like in your remark
> that Gravity has always been but the LAW came with Newton) had
> Pirsig been consequent and said that the MOQ creates the Quality
> Reality and in that reality there is neither "man" or "man's mind" or "our
> consciousness" where ideas exist of which the MOQ is one, but that
> this is its intellectual level all puzzle pieces would have been in place.
You sound more and more like Ham. His writing also suggests that nothing
ever existed before humans came about and started to explore nature and
give names to it.
Magnus
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