On 6 Apr 2008 at 15:49, Matt Kundert wrote: > My two definitions:
> 1) Metaphysics is the general framework, or understanding, or set of > assumptions, that people unconsciously (with various degrees of > self-consciousness) interpret, or see, or live in the world. As an > activity, it is the attempt to make the unconscious self-conscious > (this activity is also known in some circles as "philosophy"). Talking to Matt is a safe sport, no disturbing replies. However his definition (#1) is pretty good, only I can't get it basic enough. Even Pirsig's "..no-one living in an ordered universe can avoid metaphysics" should have omitted "ordered" because human beings invariably order existence - that's their hallmark. Thus even the old mythologies were metaphysics in this extended sense. An aside): Because only human beings has entered the Q-social level and a mythology requires language I wonder if not language and the social level are intimately connected. A chicken & egg relationship. From now on I use that as my premises. It's said that the first registered burial rituals is a sign - not only of a notion of an existence beyond, but of an EXISTENCE at all, but as sure is it that early humankind didn't invent the beyond as a comfort against their fear of death, rather that the existence beyond was what confirmed an existence here. Anyone understand the the immensity of this point? As I see it, MOQ's message is that each static level is the creation of a reality different from the one before it and the social level was a shift from biology's non-existential existence (death no issue as an "idea") to one of eternal existence (death as a mere transition to another realm) Thus when the 4th level emerged with its objective outlook that gave death a final "fall from the rim of existence" quality) social value attained a "paradise lost" quality for many. This I believe was behind Phaedrus' identifying the old Aretê with Value itself, and his hatred of SOM that destroyed it. In MOQ this is the social-intellectual transition and my above explains why intellect looks so "valueless" (to regard intellect this way is wrong but enough for now). I just wonder why Pirsig so patently refuses to compare ZAMM with the MOQ and so mysteriously downplays the SOM. Anyway. I also believe this to be behind other attempts to systematize the upheaval around this time in history it, for instance Owen Barfield's "Participation Scheme" that fits uncannily with MOQ's social - intellectual stages and because Barfield postulates a "resumption of participation" fits with the MOQ itself, i.e. a return to the holistic "social" view ... although at a higher plane. > 2) Metaphysics is the branch of philosophy that attempts to display > the basic, universal, ahistorical underpinnings of reality (this > activity is also sometimes known in some circles as "Platonism," and > in a few circles the acronymic "SOM"). This resembles Pirsig's about the MOQ as a mere theory about the "Quality Reality" that can be divided any way and still be good. Something I deeply disagree with. Bo Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
