> Ron:
> The DQ/SQ divide is the intellectual/reality divide.
> Pirsig says killintellectual patterns and morality
> is served. Reality is realizedMore fully. Reality
> being patterns of Quality. Intellectualize all
> youWant but doing so buries you deeper in SOM.
> Chris:
> This is simply not right at all - I feel. What you
> are talking about is Zen.
SA: Well, I thought you would leave Zen out of this
discussion? Zen is a way to experience quality. Zen
is simple living. Are you trying to complicate events
by picking and choosing what's best for you, is best
for everybody else? What do you have against Zen? In
a world of quality, Zen surely is.
[Lila; Ch. 5]
"...the true nature of reality is undivided. Zen,
which is a mystic religion, argues that the illusion
of dividedness can be overcome by meditation."
[Lila; Ch.11]
"You could transpose it right into that whole Zen
verse by Mumon:
'Does Lila have Quality?
That's the most important question of all.
But if you answer "yes" or you answer "no,"
You lose your own Quality.'
That's a perfect transposition. That's exactly what
happened. He answered 'yes.' That was his mistake. He
let himself get caught in the kind of
'picking-and-choosing' situation that Zen avoids, and
now he was stuck.
... It wasn't that the question wasn't answerable. It
was answerable but the answer went on and on and you
never got done."
[Lila; Ch. 17]
"Transients, like himself, who are overwhelmed
and get manic and depressive are maybe the ones who
really understand the place, the only ones with the
Zen shoshin, the 'beginner's mind' . . .
. . . There he goes."
[Lila; Ch. 20]
"'If you get too famous you will go straight to
hell,' a Japanese Zen master had warned a group
Phaedrus was in. It had sounded like one of those Zen
'truths' that don't make any sense. Now it was making
sense.
He wasn't talking about anything Dante would have
identified. Dante's Christian hell is an after-life of
eternal torment, but Zen hell is this world right here
and now, in which you see life around you but can't
participate in it. You're forever a stranger from your
own life because there's something in your life that
holds you back. You see others bathing in the life all
around them while you have to drink it through a
straw, never getting enough.
You would think that fame and fortune would bring a
sense of closeness to other people, but quite the
opposite happens. You split into two people, who they
think you are and who you really are, and that
produces the Zen hell."
[Lila; Ch. 24]
"The Hippie rejection of social and intellectual
patterns left just two directions to go: toward
biological quality and toward Dynamic Quality. The
revolutionaries of the sixties thought that since both
are antisocial, and since both are anti-intellectual,
why then they must both be the same. That was the
mistake.
American writing on Zen during this period showed this
confusion. Zen was often thought to be a sort of
innocent 'anything goes.' If you did anything you
pleased, without regard for social restraint, at the
exact moment you pleased to do it, that would express
your Buddha-nature. To Japanese Zen masters coming to
this country this must have seemed really strange.
Japanese Zen is attached to social disciplines so
meticulous they make the Puritans look almost
degenerate."
[Lila; Ch. 26 on Dharmakaya Light and dynamic
quality being staticly latched]
"The central terms of Western mysticism,
'enlightenment,' and 'illumination' refer to it
directly. Darsana, a fundamental Hindu form of
religious instruction, means 'giving of light.'
Descriptions of Zen sartori mention it. It is referred
to extensively in The Tibetan Book of the Dead. Aldous
Huxley referred to it as part of the mescaline
experience. Phaedrus remembered it from the time with
Dusenberry at the peyote meeting..."
[Lila; Ch. 30]
"Phaedrus thought it was because dharma includes
both static and Dynamic Quality without contradiction.
For example, you would guess from the literature on
Zen and its insistence on discovering the 'unwritten
dharma' that it would be intensely anti-ritualistic,
since ritual is the 'written dharma.' But that isn't
the case. The Zen monk's daily life is nothing but one
ritual after another, hour after hour, day after day,
all his life. They don't tell him to shatter those
static patterns to discover the unwritten dharma. They
want him to get those patterns perfect!
The explanation for this contradiction is the belief
that you do not free yourself from static patterns by
fighting them with other contrary static patterns.
That is sometimes called 'bad karma chasing its tail.'
You free yourself from static patterns by putting them
to sleep. That is, you master them with such
proficiency that they become an unconscious part of
your nature. You get so used to them you completely
forget them and they are gone. There in the center of
the most monotonous boredom of static ritualistic
patterns the Dynamic freedom is found."
[ZMM; Ch. 16]
The earth of the trail is covered with a soft
springy duff of pine needles. It is very quiet here.
Mountains like these and travelers in the mountains
and events that happen to them here are found not only
in Zen literature but in the tales of every major
religion. The allegory of a physical mountain for the
spiritual one that stands between each soul and its
goal is an easy and natural one to make. Like those in
the valley behind us, most people stand in sight of
the spiritual mountains all their lives and never
enter them, being content to listen to others who have
been there and thus avoid the hardships..."
[ZMM; Ch. 24]
"After all, it's exactly this stuckness that Zen
Buddhists go to so much trouble to induce; through
koans, deep breathing, sitting still and the like.
Your mind is empty, you have a ``hollow-flexible''
attitude of ``beginner's mind.'' You're right at the
front end of the train of knowledge, at the track of
reality itself. Consider, for a change, that this is a
moment to be not feared but cultivated. If your mind
is truly, profoundly stuck, then you may be much
better off than when it was loaded with ideas."
[ZMM; Ch. 25]
"Zen Buddhists talk about ``just sitting,'' a
meditative practice in which the idea of a duality of
self and object does not dominate one's consciousness.
What I'm talking about here in motorcyele maintenance
is ``just fixing,'' in which the idea of a duality of
self and object doesn't dominate one's consciousness.
When one isn't dominated by feelings of separateness
from what he's working on, then one can be said to
``care'' about what he's doing. That is what caring
really is, a feeling of identification with what one's
doing. When one has this feeling then he also sees the
inverse side of caring, Quality itself."
[ZMM; Ch. 26]
"Mu becomes appropriate when the context of the
question becomes too small for the truth of the
answer. When the Zen monk Joshu was asked whether a
dog had a Buddha nature he said ``Mu,'' meaning that
if he answered either way he was answering
incorrectly. The Buddha nature cannot be captured by
yes or no questions.
That mu exists in the natural world investigated by
science is evident. It's just that, as usual, we're
trained not to see it by our heritage. For example,
it's stated over and over again that computer circuits
exhibit only two states, a voltage for ``one'' and a
voltage for ``zero.'' That's silly!
Any computer-electronics technician knows otherwise.
Try to find a voltage representing one or zero when
the power is off! The circuits are in a mu state. They
aren't at one, they aren't at zero..."
Chris:
> Not the MOQ.
SA: The moq is about quality and Zen is quality.
By the way, Pirsig's son went into Zen. Don't you
know how open Zen is? Don't you know how open Quality
is? I don't think intellect is only s/o, and thus, I
find what Bo and you say very narrow and isn't open to
what else intellect does, but I don't think I've
excluded you. I've excluded Bo, but that's due to Bo
is a broken record and no matter what one says he'll
say his the best and the one and only person in the
world that knows the moq - talk about ego-inflation.
I've had this problem with Ham, but Ham is an honest
person. I respect him for his honesty. He has
another philosophy called Essentialism and he declares
such.
Chris:
> Furthermore, this, I fear, is exactly the kind of
talk that will
> kill the MOQ. The MOQ is a theory - it isnt the
> Dynamic Quality it talks about as well we all know,
> and it can never be.
SA: Oh the sadness or pitty, I don't know. The moq
"...can never be." Uh? The moq is not just a theory,
as the tape rewinds to play again, the moq is also dq,
and other static patterns. The intellectual level is
able to reason the moq to be on terms of discussion,
but these are analogies.
Chris:
> The DQ/SQ divide brings about a
> new way of interpreting the world - but thats what
> we do with the MOQ - we interpret. Even the WORDS
> Dynamic Quality brings us away from it. But it is
> still better than the SOM. Thats why we fight for
> it. If anyone here wishes to save Quality from
> intellectualizing I suggest you try Zen out. It has
> worked quite well for the last 1400 years or so -
> but please dont talk about it, dont try to put
> names on it, and DONT confuse it with the MOQ.
SA: Zen is deer droppings. It's stuck everywhere
when one walks in a pile. What's so alarming about
talking about Zen?
Chris:
> The MOQ is a theory, one that may bring about Better
> Days for mankind - but that makes it something.
> Static. Not DQ. Not God. Not Zen. but a Good theory.
SA: Zen is discussed and written in sutra's. Words
are reality, and so are deer droppings.
no fear,
SA
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