SA previously: I wondering, what's the big deal about
the moq not being fully defined?
Ron:
I feel, the establishment of a common understanding in
which to base our approach would only advance it's use
and meaning.
SA: Doesn't mean we need to agree, does it?
Ron:
Certainly what MoQ talks about can not be fully
defined because it is experience itself.
Certainly the word (noun) Quality can not definitely
be defined. The
words We use change meaning in use and over time so
even if it were defined it would change.
I really don't think you could Fully define MoQ if you
tried, I think
understanding MoQ means not having to defend this
aspect, its an
Intellectual pattern, it exists as concept only, it is
a description of
experience In terms.
SA: Sure. So why have some from time to time gottin'
seemingly tired of dq and argue against its' use?
Ron:
Whats the big deal with not defining it? What MoQ
explains is how
language parts up experience in order to be understood
and communicated conceptually.
When I say language, I mean that entity which is part
and parcel of
Our cultural and intellectual experience.
So what MoQ is partially about is linguistically
(therefore
conceptually) defining things in terms of DQ/SQ.
SA: yes. Isn't that what we're doing? You define
something, point out it's more specific pattern,
whether that pattern be intellectual, social,
biological, and/or inorganic and then understand it's
a maybe. It's as good as good can be, as precise as
the theory of relativity, but be open for that theory
may change.
Ron:
MoQ is about a way to more accurately talk about
experience and
therefore a more accurate understanding of experience.
It transcends our cultural/intellectual paradigm by
redefining how nouns and
There fore "things" are termed and conceptualized.
SA: true. But you would have to want to do this. I
think ZMM and Lila are full of specific ways to leap
into this understanding. For the moment, you seem to
be using the noun way.
Ron:
This is how it is able to stand outside of Bo's
intellectual level. But if he conceded that our
cultural/intellectual level/linguistic entity is not
the only one on
The planet he could see that and solve his enigma.
SA: Ron, to Bo, Bo's the only one on the planet.
Ron:
But no, he has to create
This elaborate system of redirection like a three
stooges plumbing gag
when
They attempt to fix a leak by redirecting it around
themselves in a web
of pipe ultimately diverting it on them trapped
inside. But all hail
the king. I leave him to his dilemma.
Bo: Yes. Bo is in a dilemma it would seem.
Ron:
I just want to get some things out there.
Quality is an English word.
Robert Pirsig redefines it to mean experience/reality
in his metaphysic
Of Quality.
The English word, redefined by Robert Pirsig, Is not
reality/experience.
It is a term in which to conceptualize it in reference
to his
metaphysic.
By insisting that Robert Pisigs redefinition of the
English word Quality
Can not be defined. You then keep Quality from being
discussed.
SA: We live life to only die. We eat food to only
shit it out a couple days later. We relax on the
weekends to only have to go back to work on Monday (if
your able to have weekends off). We get a paycheck to
lose in a couple days on bills. Since quality can't
be defined Ron, that means you can define your heart
out if you so wish and define until the day you die.
A reality that is undefined means you can
intellectualize forever. Is this why some people get
so defensive with dq? Their afraid to lose the
ability to conceptualize anything anymore? With a
reality undefined you don't need to be afraid of not
being able to conceptualize anymore. With an
undefined reality you have all the freedom to
conceptualize forever. No end-point definition to
stop you.
Ron:
You do not allow DQ/SQ to fulfill it's function.
If quality can not be defined quality can not be
discussed.
SA: Who said it can't be discussed? We do it almost
everyday on this forum.
Ron:
A metaphysic that can not be discussed is useless.
Pirsig is not saying drop your language and culture he
is saying
re-examine
How it interprets knowledge and experience.
SA: We do that.
woods,
SA
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