[Chris] > I have a hard time seeing how Chance can exist [Arlo] > As I see it, "chance" stands in contrast to "pre-ordained"
[Craig] This doesn't seem the right contrast. If a friend & I agree to meet, that doesn't make it pre-ordained. A lot of things can intervene. And if we do meet, that doesn't make it by chance. Determinism holds that not only are all events caused, but given the conditions there is a unique, pre-determined result. Pirsig is not a Determinist. He must account for how there can be causation without pre-determination. IMHO this is the role for DQ. [Krimel] When you and your friend agree to meet you are sharing a purpose. But as you say "a lot of things can intervene." That is chance. Everything that happens between your agreement to met and the time of the meeting will be purely deterministic. But still the meeting may or may not occur. All sorts of chance events might interfere. One of you could get hit by a bus. A butterfly could splatter on the windshield of your car and while you are cleaning your windshield you decide to buy a lottery ticket at the gas station. You win a zillion dollars and forget your friends. Given any set of unique conditions there are many possible results. A unique result will occur but it can not be specified in advance. What chance gives us is causation and determinism with limited predictability. IMHO this is why I identify chance with DQ. It is why I think Pirsig was pointing at a moon he did not see clearly enough. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
